which one is the top dog: philadelphia or pittsburgh? (Washington: condos, hotel)

[pman]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Agree. I visited Philadelphia this last March...and very impressive. I think it was once a very beautiful city. It still is in the City Center, but a lot of blight around it.

that's mostly true. It was once a very wealthy city, now much less so. the blight has lessened considerably around the city center and perhaps it's more accurate to say there is a middle band of blight between the core and the still stable outer neighborhoods.

[PDras]

Originally Posted by zip95

(3) Demographics: The staple demographic of the Northeast is not Italian... it's hordes of Blacks, hordes of Italians, hordes of Irish, some Asians, and plenty of plain white people... The staple Pittsburgh demographic is plain white people and plain black people... In Phill,y Italian is nothing like Pittsburgh Italian. Pittsburgh Italian is a check box on the census... Philly Italian is literally Sopranos Guito... Go to south Philly and you'll hear things like... I hate white people, cause I'm not white, I'm Italian... Philly Irish is bag-pipe Boston... Does Pittsburgh even have an Irish neighborhood... Philly Black has lots of ghetto, but there also exists a significant black middle class and even a black upper class There is an entire black power structure that actually controls the city. Pittsburgh black is mostly ghetto, with some small slivers of black middle class.

I'd love to hear your definition of "plain white people."

[Johnland]

Hands down, Philly is the greater city of the two. Center City is bigger than all of Downtown Pittsburgh and it has much more street life and vibrancy. It is a dense, walkable, pedestrian - friendly urban center. The recent flash mob activity will hopefully fade away and allow civilized life to resume and I'm sure it will.

Don't me wrong, I love Pittsburgh. It's Downtown is like a little chuck of Manhattan and it's compact nature is a huge plus. It has street life, bit not as much as Philly.

Even though Philly is a higher level of urban fabric, it will actually be Pittsburgh that I relocate to from Florida. I cannot wait to get back to PA, with all it's good and not so good. Give me winter over endless sun, Pittsburgh city and the Laurel Highlands and the rivers and the autumns. I am so ready to trade hurricane for snow.

[Blackbeauty212]

There's more to Pittsburgh than it's downtown...Can the same be said about Philly.....IMO Not really.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

There's more to Pittsburgh than it's downtown...Can the same be said about Philly.....IMO Not really.

meh, not really true but these threads don't tend to be very accurate

[Blackbeauty212]

It's very true and you know it....Philly has the better downtown, Pittsburgh has the better neighborhoods...why can't Philly homers seem to except this...too many Philly neighborhoods have way too many crime problems and are no where near as vibrant as Pittsburgh neighborhoods.

Why was this put in the Pittsburgh forum anyway...It belongs in the PA section and I think PA forum has enough Philly vs Pitt

[boulevardofdef]

Having been to Pittsburgh in the past month and Philly within the past couple of years, I have to say I prefer Philly. Pittsburgh had its moments, but Philly had more polish and more of an urban energy. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot to like about Pittsburgh and a bunch of ways I liked it better than Philly (scenery, crime rate, you can get anywhere in 15 minutes, Steelers fans never cheered Michael Irvin's possible paralysis), but I didn't find any neighborhoods in Pittsburgh that really seemed finished, you know what I mean? Even in the best areas, I'd turn the corner and find myself on a street of rickety, peeling rowhouses or in an unattractive warehousey area. Everybody told me Squirrel Hill and Shadyside would be those established neighborhoods, but even there, I saw a lot of badly kept-up houses, etc. Oakland probably came the closest but for whatever reason didn't seem quite there.

Pittsburgh probably had a higher percentage of neighborhoods than Philly where you'd feel comfortable walking down the street at night, but there were no neighborhoods I really loved like I loved the South Street area or the Old City. And I need a little of that.

Obviously there's no such thing as a "better" city -- it's all a matter of individual preference. But if I were equidistant from both and had to choose one to visit, I'd choose Philly.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by boulevardofdef

Having been to Pittsburgh in the past month and Philly within the past couple of years, I have to say I prefer Philly. Pittsburgh had its moments, but Philly had more polish and more of an urban energy. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot to like about Pittsburgh and a bunch of ways I liked it better than Philly (scenery, crime rate, you can get anywhere in 15 minutes, Steelers fans never cheered Michael Irvin's possible paralysis), but I didn't find any neighborhoods in Pittsburgh that really seemed finished, you know what I mean? Even in the best areas, I'd turn the corner and find myself on a street of rickety, peeling rowhouses or in an unattractive warehousey area. Everybody told me Squirrel Hill and Shadyside would be those established neighborhoods, but even there, I saw a lot of badly kept-up houses, etc. Oakland probably came the closest but for whatever reason didn't seem quite there.

Pittsburgh probably had a higher percentage of neighborhoods than Philly where you'd feel comfortable walking down the street at night, but there were no neighborhoods I really loved like I loved the South Street area or the Old City. And I need a little of that.

Obviously there's no such thing as a "better" city -- it's all a matter of individual preference. But if I were equidistant from both and had to choose one to visit, I'd choose Philly.

hmmmm Squirrel Hill and Shadyside aren't established enough...."rickety old pealing rowhouses" are you sure you were in Squirrel Hill and Shadyside???? neither of these neighborhoods have what you described not even by a block...

Both are well predominantly affluent neighborhood with bustling vibrant business districts.

Carson street offers the same thing south street does, even more as South Street vibrancy is 14 blocks long...Carson is 25 blocks....

Olde City experience can be had in Downtown Cultural Dist and Lawrenceville.

not saying that you haven't been to Pittsburgh, but the neighborhoods as you describe them are not Pittsburgh

[boulevardofdef]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

hmmmm Squirrel Hill and Shadyside aren't established enough...."rickety old pealing rowhouses" are you sure you were in Squirrel Hill and Shadyside???? neither of these neighborhoods have what you described not even by a block...

Both are well predominantly affluent neighborhood with bustling vibrant business districts.

Carson street offers the same thing south street does, even more as South Street vibrancy is 14 blocks long...Carson is 25 blocks....

Olde City experience can be had in Downtown Cultural Dist and Lawrenceville.

not saying that you haven't been to Pittsburgh, but the neighborhoods as you describe them are not Pittsburgh

I didn't mean the rickety, peeling rowhouses were in Squirrel Hill and Shadyside. That was more other neighborhoods. But I did see a lot of houses there that needed paint jobs, with overgrown lawns, fences coming apart, that sort of thing. All in all, they were very nice neighborhoods. But beyond a greater lack of attention to upkeep than I was expecting, I was disappointed that they, more than anything, reminded me of the suburban areas where I grew up. In that sense, they couldn't really make the city for me.

East Carson Street I liked a whole lot -- it was one of my very favorite parts of Pittsburgh. The thing I liked most was the diversity of the restaurants, bars and retail -- there really seemed to be something for everyone, which is something you don't see in a lot of cities, where the hipsters have this neighborhood and the yuppies have that neighborhood and the working stiffs have the other neighborhood and so on. But though it might be longer than South Street, South Street just struck me as bigger, cooler, hipper, more eye candy, more foot traffic, more exciting, more appealing retail, all that. Carson has nothing to be ashamed of, but if forced to compare the two, I prefer South Street. Now, East Carson was also exactly the area I had in mind when I talked about the rickety rowhouses around the corner.

Downtown (the Cultural District and beyond) and Lawrenceville are both good examples of what I meant by unfinished. Both had good spots and seemed to be on their way up, but there was definitely a strong element of grit. Grit is good in moderation, and some people -- particularly the younger tastemakers -- prefer it, but what I'm getting at is that I'd rather have a city that has at least a couple of areas totally devoid of it.

[MathmanMathman]

My general impression of Philly is....who talks about Philly? I pretty much never think about Philly except in terms of the Liberty Bell and its role in the Revolutionary War...or a cheesesteak sandwich. What characterizes it other than the frequently tossed empty phrase "City of Brotherly Love"? Pittsburgh has a lot more character and actually conjures up an image in people's minds, even if it is a false one (i.e. steel mills). The Golden Triangle and rivers are an unmistakable symbol of Pittsburgh. What image does Philly have? It's a sprawling mess of.....what? Even NYC and Pittsburgh have their skyline image. To me Philly is like Baltimore. We know it's there but it doesn't seem to matter. Washington overshadows Baltimore and NYC overshadows Philly. Philadelphia lacks meaning and lacks place. Pittsburgh means something and is a distinctive place. At least Scranton at last has a TV show setting to give it some meaning in people's minds. Oh wait, Philly is Rocky's hometown.