PGH pedestrian friendly? and real story on crime (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: section 8, dorm)

[zip95]

Always glad to contribute to your entertaimnet Hopes :-) Luckily, I view the internet as a fun toy, and would never take any of this seriously enough to hold a grudge.

pittnurse70, I still don't really know what your issue of contention was. That was why I suggested we end the conversation. Maybe if I list what, in my opinion, were the main points of my posts we can add some clarity.

1.)Statistically, Pittsburgh is a relatively safe city, and that's a good thing.
2.)There is a good reason that crime correlates with race.
3.)Upon further reflection, we should never lose sight of the fact that all of those statistics represent real loss to real people.
4.)Madison Wisconsin is like some leave-it-to-beaver oasis in the middle of a rough and tumble america.

[Katiana]

zip95: In general, I feel the same as you about the internet. I use city-data for entertainment, relaxation, etc, and do not want to get into any big hassles on it. Your points are well taken. Here are mine:

Madison is not out in the middle of nowhere. As a transplanted easterner myself, I can say that many easterners do not have a grasp of the rest of the country. I cannot think of any community off the top of my head that is hundreds of miles from anywhere else, not even in Wyoming, let alone Wisconsin. Wisconsin is actually pretty well populated, with small farms all over the state, little towns and some larger cities.

The media reports stories however it wishes, and can whip up hysteria about news events (this just came to me this morning in church, btw). Also, shots fired at a nightclub or anywhere in any city is not a trivial matter.

Madison is not some dinky little town, but it is much smaller in MSA than Pittsburgh, so a direct comparison is not possible. Shots fired in Madison may be more of a story than shots fired in Pittsburgh, for all I know.

and, the clincher . . .

Safe does not equate with boring.

[pghlibrarian]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

What is wrong with Dubuque or Fresno?

I harbor nor ill-will against either cities besides the fact that I have been to both and found them remarkably dull. BTW, I'm not a rah-rah Pittsburgh cheerleader. I think that Pittsburgh's a nice place, but would hardly call myself a rabid supporter.

[pghlibrarian]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Safe does not equate with boring.

I couldn't agree with you more. Some of the safest places I have ever lived have been some of the most vibrant (a few cities in Canada spring to mind...) I consider Denver to be a very safe and very lively place. I'd love to live in Denver -- the mountains are beautiful there! But the career paths of myself and my partner did't take us there or anywhere else...they brought us to Pittsburgh.

What I was originally posting about (the Dubuque and Fresno analogies) was in response to people on this board who have -- a) never been to Pittsburgh or b) visited once and hated it -- coming and trashing the place I'll call home for at least the forseeable future.

You have a great deal of information about Pittsburgh, and I appreciate it greatly. I may not always agree with you viewpoint, but I love to hear the discussion. As I said in a previous post, I may not be the biggest Pittsburgh cheerleader or be resigned to the "sh*tsburgh" mentality, but fall somewhere in between.

For what it's worth, I think Pittsburgh is an interesting, friendly, lively, active, viable, and even safe area whose better days may still be ahead. I may be a Pollyanna or I may be delusional, but that's the way I feel.

[Katiana]

Glad we found something to agree about, pghlibrarian. Yes, Denver is beautiful. We drove to Canon City, CO yesterday and it was gorgeous and green the whole way. When we got to the camp where our daughter will work for the summer, there was still a little snow on the ground. (This is rather high in the mtns, not at 1 mile above sea level.)

My point about Dubuque was that many people diss (sic?) and dismisses Iowa w/o ever having been there. Iowa seems to be a code word for "hick state". Iowa is beautiful green country with rolling hills. Des Moines is 200,000 people, will probably soon be bigger than Pittsburgh! The population is well educated. Yet many easterners think they are being tres sophisticated when they make disparaging remardks about it. Same thing you say about Pittsburgh, which was my secondary point. I would guess you picked Fresno for the same reason; it has a reputation as 'nowhereville'. Many Fresnans (?) would probably disagree with you and point out its good points.

[pgh412]

Pittsburgh Ranked Among America's Most Dangerous Cities - News Story - WTAE Pittsburgh

[pgh412]

Make sure you watch the news story as well. The professor discusses the problems of all crime reporting, and how crime statistics can be inaccurate.

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by pgh412

Make sure you watch the news story as well. The professor discusses the problems of all crime reporting, and how crime statistics can be inaccurate.

And reading the article reveals that they didn't include some other major metropolitan areas in their study, including Chicago and New Orleans! That's a significant problem in a study which is attempting to create an accurate comparison of crime rates across the U.S.

[hnsq]

First of all, this post is purely for fun - I hate arguing, and refuse to do so online.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Madison is not out in the middle of nowhere. As a transplanted easterner myself, I can say that many easterners do not have a grasp of the rest of the country. I cannot think of any community off the top of my head that is hundreds of miles from anywhere else, not even in Wyoming, let alone Wisconsin. Wisconsin is actually pretty well populated, with small farms all over the state, little towns and some larger cities.

I recently moved to Pittsburgh from Wyoming, and let me tell you, there ARE a few places hundreds of miles from anywhere.

I lived in a town of 300 people in Wyoming, I had to drive an hour and a half to get to the 'city' (a town of 1500 people). Before I started to drive anywhere, I had to look at a map and plan out where I would get gas, because it was very possible to run out if you don't. I passed a few towns in Wyoming with official populations of less than 20 people. There are gates on either side of the road going through town which come down when snow hits in the winter, leaving those people cut off from everyone else for a few months every year. As someone who has lived in Philadelphia, Wyoming, and now Pittsburgh, it is impossible to even imagine how people in other areas of the country live. If someone who has lived in Chicago, for example, tells me it is dangerous, I will believe them. Just like I expect someone to believe me when I say living in Fairview WY (one of the smallest towns you can actually find on a map) is an experience you cannot understand unless you have been there.

In short, trust people who have first hand experience, especially when you do not.

[Katiana]

In short, trust people who have first hand experience, especially when you do not.

OK, you say you don't want to argue, but your last sentence is very condescending. What a great way to get in the last word, by refusing to "argue"!

I have been to Wyoming. I live in Colorado, have visited there many times. And what you describe is not really "the middle of nowhere", hundreds of miles from anywhere else, which I believe was the reference. It certainly doesn't describe Madison, Wisconsin, which I have also been to and which was the topic of discussion. My mother was from Wisconsin and we spent lots of time there visiting the relatives, sometimes staying for months. Wisconsin is literally dotted with little farms and small farm towns, and that is in the northern part of the state. Southeastern Wisconsin is dominated by Milwaukee, a city of 596,000 plus suburbs. Madison is barely far enough away to not be considered a suburb.

As for my credentials, where I have lived: Pittsburgh, both Beaver County and the city; Lancaster, California, in the high desert above LA; Champaign, Ill; Ithaca and Albany, NY; Hershey, PA; Wilmington, DE; Denver, Louisville and Lafayette Colorado (in roughly chronological order).