Pittsburgh's economy is hot!!!!! (California: sales, real estate, renting)

[Humanoid]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

California - $50bn deficit a whole state on the verge of Collapse.

The budgetary problems in California are bad...but not that bad. The current deficit is $11 billion and the state isn't on "verge of collapse". Regardless California was ground zero of the housing bubble.

Originally Posted by globalburgh

You are making a false assertion. There are a host of Rust Belt cities that didn't boom leading the way for economic distress (Detroit). And there are boom cities listed still sporting some of the strongest job creation numbers (Austin).

No, I'm making an assertion that is generally true. By no means did I mean it to be a universal generalization. Perhaps you don't understand the nature of the most recent boom but it was in the FIRE economy. Austin doesn't have a big FIRE economy and hence wasn't part of the most recent boom. Austin current growth is in real productivity, it isn't a bubble.

Anyhow, my claim wasn't that every city not heavily involved in the recent bubble in the FIRE economy is doing fine. Just that many of these cities are doing better because they don't have front line exposure to the problems. Many will be dragged down with the other regions though as the fallout from the collapse in the FIRE economy is going to have far reaching consequences.

Anyhow, Pittsburgh shouldn't count its eggs before they hatch. The fallout from the current crisis is going to be long and deep and it will effect every region of the country. It is my view that over the next couple of years Pittsburgh will see some major problems.

One issue that I've mentioned here multiple times (before real estate collapsed) is that as housing gets cheaper in other areas that are traditionally more desirable the desire to relocate to places like Pittsburgh will wane. This will not only effect Pittsburgh real estate market, but will also limit the high skilled labor pool.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

You know what makes me mad, the fact that not just in Pittsburgh, but all over the country, some few individuals decide to bash other cities to make theirs look better. Bringing Cleveland into the mix is so uncalled for.

To paraphrase Spiro Agnew, there are a ton of negative nabobs of negativism on this board.

I've had great times in Cleveland, hell, back in the 70's I had a lot of great times in Youngstown. Both are good areas that have been hit hard, especially Y-town.

[globalburgh]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

No, I'm making an assertion that is generally true. By no means did I mean it to be a universal generalization. Perhaps you don't understand the nature of the most recent boom but it was in the FIRE economy. Austin doesn't have a big FIRE economy and hence wasn't part of the most recent boom. Austin current growth is in real productivity, it isn't a bubble.

Anyhow, my claim wasn't that every city not heavily involved in the recent bubble in the FIRE economy is doing fine. Just that many of these cities are doing better because they don't have front line exposure to the problems. Many will be dragged down with the other regions though as the fallout from the collapse in the FIRE economy is going to have far reaching consequences.

Anyhow, Pittsburgh shouldn't count its eggs before they hatch. The fallout from the current crisis is going to be long and deep and it will effect every region of the country. It is my view that over the next couple of years Pittsburgh will see some major problems.

One issue that I've mentioned here multiple times (before real estate collapsed) is that as housing gets cheaper in other areas that are traditionally more desirable the desire to relocate to places like Pittsburgh will wane. This will not only effect Pittsburgh real estate market, but will also limit the high skilled labor pool.

What you are doing is making an assertion with NO supporting data. Nada. Zip. Take the job creation data in the OP and build a case. The list of cities currently struggling but with no connection to the FIRE boom isn't what I would call an isolated case.

It's not generally true just because you say it is. Show us. Don't tell us.

[dugdogmaster]

Originally Posted by COPANUT

To paraphrase Spiro Agnew, there are a ton of negative nabobs of negativism on this board.

I've had great times in Cleveland, hell, back in the 70's I had a lot of great times in Youngstown. Both are good areas that have been hit hard, especially Y-town.

Y-town rocks my socks!

[dugdogmaster]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

What you are doing is making an assertion with NO supporting data. Nada. Zip. Take the job creation data in the OP and build a case. The list of cities currently struggling but with no connection to the FIRE boom isn't what I would call an isolated case.

It's not generally true just because you say it is. Show us. Don't tell us.

There's no swaying him or changing his mind. You could put all of the recent data from the last year(90% of which is all good news) in front of him and he would still argue the facts.

[Katiana]

The question was asked, "have you read the article"? Well, who on this thread didn't read it? It was lifted in its entirety from the link, a copyright violation that is supposedly against the TOS!

Moving on, I've read other stuff by this guy, and his position is always a bit, well, rosy. He posts opinion as fact. Fortelling the future has to be opinion, BTW.

I can give you some hard data. My brother works for a human resources consulting firm in Bridgeville. This is a business that other companies contract out their HR to. Many times if you call another company's 800 number for employment, you will get the likes of my bro (actually, I don't think he's answering the phones anymore). Anyway, this company that is in the business of helping other companies hire people, just laid off 50 people, about 4% of its workforce.

[dugdogmaster]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

You know what makes me mad, the fact that not just in Pittsburgh, but all over the country, some few individuals decide to bash other cities to make theirs look better. Bringing Cleveland into the mix is so uncalled for.

Cleveland is doing well, the recession hurt the city just like 95% of the others across the country and the world for that matter. Check out Australia where many of their major cities developments are getting scraped. Here in Cleveland we have no budget problems, city employees will not be loosing their jobs, and we look towards an extremely bright future with an economy that is getting more and more diverse.

Cleveland jobs going to Pittsburgh? National City??? LOL that was a rip-off from the government, and it will hurt Pittsburgh just as equally if not more than Cleveland. People in Cleveland are already moving from National City to Key Bank here in Cleveland because of this "unfair trade." Don't forget, Cleveland is the banking center for the Cleveland-Pittsburgh area. Pittsburgh needs to realize, Cleveland is a big market for them, and Forest City Enterprises which I work strongly with has a strong presence in Pittsburgh including the Strip District and many malls including Robinson.

Cleveland has diversified our economy, Cleveland Clinic, known around the world has attracted many people to our area, and from around the world. Ohio was the 4th fastest growing state in bring in EDUCATED people from outside the U.S. We have a booming medical based economy, go to University Circle or the Cleveland Clinic, construction cranes everywhere.

Downtown Cleveland has one of the fastest growing downtown populations in the country, we have plans for a new convention center which will only be rivaled by a few in the U.S. including New York's similar plans for theirs. Which will start around the same time has Cleveland's. Over 4.3 billion dollars have went into downtown in just the last few years. The Flats East Bank is a new mixed use development that is over half a billion and site prep is already underway.

Cleveland is rebounding, just as well as Pittsburgh, and better in some sectors. Pittsburgh can say the same.

But comparing Cleveland and Youngstown... a small city that is seeing a lot of new development and should not be downgraded. The Chevy Centre is very nice, many new restaurants and downtown lofts are opening up in downtown Youngstown. Mill Creek Park the largest urban park in the nation outside of New York. You want to see dead, go to Flint, Michigan.

Detroit is not in good shape. Unlike Pittsburgh and Cleveland, they did not diversify their economy. While Pittsburgh and Cleveland went towards technology, medical, and green energy, Detroit stayed with the auto industry, and we all know where that is going.

I am an urban planner, I work for the city of Cleveland. I can tell you that Cleveland is in much better shape than Detroit, and many cities across the country. Even in the discusting sprawling Sunbelt.

Here in Cleveland we just had our "Light The Tree Parade." Festivities that get ready for the greatly decorated Public Square right in the middle of downtown. I met a family from Detroit who was amazed with the development and life in downtown Cleveland. They told me you don't see that back in Detroit and they are right. Their sport stadiums are in the suburbs, and when most downtowns gain population with their daily workforce, Detroit looses population.

Pittsburgh and Cleveland have come a long way, it just makes me mad when someone bashes a city to make theirs look better, and that was said in this thread already bashing Cleveland. Cleveland has culture, we have amazing parks and musuems, and a bright future, just like Pittsburgh. This recession will end, and both Pittsburgh and Cleveland who have been voted most livable recently will get through this, and people will see why Pittsburgh and Cleveland have made the rustbelt image slowly fade from these areas.

Oh come on, she wasn't bashing Cleveland when she made that list. If she was bashing, then you can be accused of the same.

[globalburgh]

Controlling for Rust Belt economic struggles ... Unemployment Rate Graph

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by globalburgh

Controlling for Rust Belt economic struggles ... Unemployment Rate Graph

Oh wow Pittsburgh's is lower than the national of 6.5% and Cleveland isn't that far above it. Detroit however is sad.

[sr1234]

Being new on here, it is curious to see the kool aid fanfare for Pittsburgh. And all of the celebration for all of the "National City" jobs. People here don't seem to know a lot about National City and/or the banking industry. I have been through several bank mergers. It isn't what people think. First, National City has already laid off thousands of people, especially in their mortgage division. Second, in a bank merger duplicate divisions are cut but only a few people are added on to take care of the new customers. Third, a lot of the workers will stay in the Cleveland area. Part of a merger is to gain new territory, they aren't going to be bringing all those jobs here. And if it is more cost effective to keep divisions in Ohio, then PNC will do it. Fourth, banks don't always tell the truth about jobs. For example, Nationsbank telling San Francisco reps that they were moving all the jobs there and the headquarters after the BofA merger.