Sunday Paper-- PGH 2008 Murder rate (Pittsburgh, Jerome: 2009, apartment, crimes)

[By~Tor]

Anyone read the Sunday (Post-Gazette) paper front-page article about the 28% rise in the murder rate here in 20087 and the circumstances surrounding it?

I have a few ideas to discuss, after seeing if anyone's interested in discussing the topic, itself... but really, one has to have read the article to see where I'll be coming from on it...

[scottrpriester]

Oh I can't wait to see where this discussion goes.......

How "bad" it is to live in Pittsburgh

A whole new "where's good and bad".................

[scottrpriester]

Pittsburgh homicides jump 28% as other cities see declines
Sunday, January 04, 2009
By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Nearly a week of 2008 passed before Pittsburgh saw its first homicide of the year.

Then, on Jan. 6, two people forced their way into an apartment in Elmore Square in the Hill District and 32-year-old Shawn Robinson was shot in the chest, trunk and abdomen. He died at the scene. No one has been arrested.

January turned into a month of tragic shootings. Jolesa Barber, 12, died in her sister's rowhouse on the North Side when 40 rounds of gunfire were sprayed at windows, doors and walls. Ernest Tolliver, 15, was killed by a gunman as he waited with his mother and younger sister at a Homewood KFC drive-thru lane.

By Dec. 31, the Pittsburgh Police Bureau had investigated 79 homicides for the year.

The number is unofficial and could fall to 73 when the bureau reclassifies some deaths as accidental or justifiable, including three police-involved shootings. But even the lower figure makes 2008 the city's bloodiest year since 1993, when there were 83 homicides. The number also represents a 28 percent increase from 2007, when the city recorded 57 homicides.

The bureau's clearance rate for homicides -- those where an arrest was made or a case was otherwise solved -- went down from 75 percent in 2007 to about 49 percent for 2008.
Moderator cut: shortened, copyright protection. Next time please provide a short (1-2 paragraphs ) excerpt and a link to the original source

[PeterRabbit]

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[scottrpriester]

It's amazing the murder rate was as low as 32.

[PeterRabbit]

That's not a murder rate, it's a body count. Rate is when you take the number of murders and divide them by the population then multiply by 100,000. The rate lets cities of any size be compared to each other. This year our murder rate is about the same as Philly.

[By~Tor]

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

Oh I can't wait to see where this discussion goes.......

How "bad" it is to live in Pittsburgh

A whole new "where's good and bad".................

No, Scott, it's NOT meant to be an anti-Pittsburgh post... one would think
that if they've ever read my posts, that they'd know better than that....


What I DID find of interest, was that in the numbers cited by the article, out of 79 homicides "investigated" for the year, a full 65 of the victims were black, 56 of THEM black males.... and a full 81% of them involved guns...

My point being, that once again, the facts bear out that the REAL problem facing our urban cities today is based around the mentality in our minority communities that "Thug Life" is unavoidable and the most desirable way for urban youth to go about getting the life they want.... so, they strap on, and walk our streets, packin' heat, looking for an opportunity to commit crimes and, if faced with overwhelming odds against them, they're not afraid to pull out their "odds-evener" and use it on people!!!

Maybe its not fashionable nor politically-correct to load onto the black community to address the issue that is tearing their communities apart, but the facts speak for themselves.... this is not a largely white, asian or hispanic problem... it's a "black" problem, and as I've long said, the solution(s) MUST come FROM the black community, in order for it to carry any street-cred with the youth of today and have any chance of success in lowering the number of "Little 'G's" roaming our streets....

I am neither a racist nor anti-minority in any way; I'm simply calling it what it is, and I find it amazing that we have embraced, as a society, all things "equal", except for when it comes for "personal responsibility"... whenever it comes down to that, we're afraid to say anything, out of fear of being labelled "racist"...

Now, of course, we can go on all day about the underlying socio-economic history that may have helped lead society to where it is, but that is all "The Past", and we canot change it. All we have is today and, hopefully, "tomorrow", as well. All we can do is try to work for a better future for all our populace, regardless of race, color, whatever....

And, from my perspective, there simply has to be more involvement from the black community as a whole, in teaching kids to stay away from gang life and thug mentality, from the earliest ages!--Moms and Dads, Preachers, Schools, and Extended Families all have to make this Priority #1, if we ever hope to stem the flow of new and ever-more vicious waves of youth, entering into the criminal culture. - - - I think people largely only pay lip-service to the ideals of "working hard, being honest, and a fair day's wage for a fair day's work".... and kids are WAAAAAAAY to smart for us to get over on 'em THAT way, anymore....

It has to be a "Brainwashing" of the kids, beginning at the youngest ages, 5 and 6 years old, perhaps...

We have video games like Grand Theft Auto, wherein kids can run over, shoot, and otherwise kill people in their quest to fulfill their mission... and I'm NOT slagging on what is, undoubtedly, a great game.... but why don't they come out with a socialy-responsible video game, wherein the "player" has to AVOID situations where trouble could occur... find ways to talk out disagreements with the protagonists... in order to move onward throughout the game???

I think that if we take a multi-fronted approach to teaching our kids that gang life leads nowhere but jail or the cemetary, then we'll be well on our way to not only stemming the flow of cime in our neighborhoods, but lowering the number of our young black males who end up either dead or in prison. And, after all, isn't that what we REALLY want to do anyway???

Anyone who thinks that gang life is the only way to get what one wants in life is suffering from a defeatist mentality, and that can be very contagious... so, what is needed, is a concentrated and dedicated effort to fight that defeatism wherever it rears its ugly head, from Day One.

Our poor urban areas are in no more trouble that our poor rural areas, but the crimes occurring out in the rural areas are largely misdemeanor crimes, and the kids usually "grow out" of their troublemaking without either going to prison or dying.... that said, we cannot say that the problem can be avoided in either type of community, but rather, we have to focus our efforts on prevention, not remediation, incarceration or rehabilitation.

It all has to start somewhere; that's my main point... so, where is the outcry from the black community leaders to draw attention to efforts to stem the tide? - - - And where is the white community's partnership in those efforts?. . . . and where is the OUTRAGE over the whole damned situation, as a whole???

I have 3 kids, and even though they do not live with me, in every conversation I ever have with them, I try to work to instill positive values in them, and I've seen this pay off in better grades, less trouble and a better overall attitude in their little minds... so, why can't this very basic approach be taken by ALL parents, regardless of color or social/economic status??? It costs nothing in money, and only a small amount of time or energy to do, and provides results that defy measure, in the form of happier, healthier and better prepared children....

Okay - - I'll stop my rant here, before I just start repeating the same stuff over and over again.... but I AM interested in ideas, potential solutions and differing viewpoints on this topic...

[scottrpriester]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

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What I DID find of interest, was that in the numbers cited by the article, out of 79 homicides "investigated" for the year, a full 65 of the victims were black, 56 of THEM black males.... and a full 81% of them involved guns..

You say you find it interesting, but are you surprised?

[AVYinzer]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

It all has to start somewhere; that's my main point... so, where is the outcry from the black community leaders to draw attention to efforts to stem the tide? - - - And where is the white community's partnership in those efforts?. . . . and where is the OUTRAGE over the whole damned situation, as a whole???

You certainly make good points, but why is it the 'good citizens' responsibility? Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just as it is not the gun's fault, it is not the fault of the avg citizen of the black community. They are just people going about their lives like the rest of us. Sure, they should be outraged as we all should be outraged when someone is murdered but ultimately it is the repsonsiblity of one of the two involved...the killer to stop killing or the police to stop the killer!

In my opinion neither of the two are doing their job:

One) The Police: We live in a major city with very well paid officers, including a swat team, and they are not doing enough. Period! If we could bring down the mafia which was an international gang of grown men with much more power than a few teenage thugs, the government and enforcement agencies should be able to shut down a few local gangs. But they don't, do they? Why? That is the real question.

Two) The Killers: Every generation since the beginning of time included kids who caused their fair share of trouble as teenagers but we grew out of it. These 'thugs' need to GROW UP! This doesn't go for just young black men but it goes for young white men as well. Grown adults are living with their parents well into their 20's, not because of a lack of money or resources, but because they are LAZY! Instead of finding a job and working hard like everyone else, they are looking for the easy way out. We have grown men playing video games for crying out loud! For Christ's sake, if you are past college age (i.e. 22 yrs or older) put the damn video games away! You are not a kid! Enough with the Wii, you're an adult! GROW UP AND ACT LIKE ONE!!!!!! The music doesn't help either...every other song is about 'cash' and fancy cars and spending money...How about a song that tells them how to RESPONSIBLY MAKE THAT MONEY BEFORE THEY SPEND IT!?!?! And if the song isn't about spending money, it's about being 'in da club' or who's shaking what on the dancefloor. Again, GROW UP!!! If you are old enough to get into a club (21+) you should be mature enough to see it for what it is...it's only meant to be an entertaining way to pass the time. It's not a lifestyle! Hanging out in clubs is not a job and it will get you no where!

[pic-chic]

I'm curious, is there a map like this for Pittsburgh - 2008 homicides in Boston - Boston.com
I don't know the exact population difference, but Boston is bigger, I think (and had 63 homicides). There has been a lot of work at street level, so to speak, and the problem is smaller than it was. By~Tor is right, there has to be involvement from the ground up. City leaders and police chiefs talking means nothing to the guys selling drugs and protecting their territory. Programs that already exist have to be promoted. Every kid in every city says, "there's nothing to do - this place is dead." Kids have to be given the skills to make their own safe fun. Imaginations and intelligence shouldn't be wasted, but encouraged (as long as they're used for legal pursuits).