Why is Pittsburgh so cheap?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Well all that "potential", earned a lot of people, a lot money, for a decade!...

And what did Pittsburgh see? More people moved out (as usual)!

The appreciation seen over the last decade in California, Florida, Chicago etc was abnormal, it was irrational exuberance little different than any other financial mania. Yes some speculators made money, but are you so dense as to not see the outcome? The nation is now close to entering a depression and its already the worst recession since WW2. All of this is related to the housing lead mania.

Also, only a small number of people benefited from this. You had to buy before the housing bubble and then sell near the peak AND either put the money in the bank and rent or move to an area with lower housing costs. Anybody that has not sold yet, bought another home in a similar area etc is not going to see any of the funny money. Also, the typical way people took advantage of their "equity" was to cash-out refi or take out a home equity loan. Most of these people are now screwed, they have the option of either walking away from their house or being a debt slave for decades.

Anyhow, for every person that gained from appreciation many more will suffer. Stable affordable housing is an asset.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by user_id

The appreciation seen over the last decade in California, Florida, Chicago etc was abnormal, it was irrational exuberance little different than any other financial mania. Yes some speculators made money, but are you so dense as to not see the outcome? The nation is now close to entering a depression and its already the worst recession since WW2. All of this is related to the housing lead mania.

Also, only a small number of people benefited from this. You had to buy before the housing bubble and then sell near the peak AND either put the money in the bank and rent or move to an area with lower housing costs. Anybody that has not sold yet, bought another home in a similar area etc is not going to see any of the funny money. Also, the typical way people took advantage of their "equity" was to cash-out refi or take out a home equity loan. Most of these people are now screwed, they have the option of either walking away from their house or being a debt slave for decades.

Anyhow, for every person that gained from appreciation many more will suffer. Stable affordable housing is an asset.

Whaaaaaaaat?......... You're using words like "some spectulators" and "only a small number of people benefited"? lol lol lol .... There was money being made hand over fist for a decade. Ya, now the bubbles bursted, but leading up to it? More people than you can shake a stick out made money in the realestate market over the last ten years. For you to somehow downplay it, well it's like you're trying to "deny" it!...

You keep going on and on and on about realestate to me, as 'if' I don't understand how it works. Why do you keep doing this?...

Of course the home appreciations couldn't keep up. South Florida was seeing 30 and 40 % appreciations in some areas! But for all those who bought in the late 90's and early 2000's, then sold, they made a KILLING!

You can save your breath with the Realestate 101 with me. Honestly, you're just wasting your time. I'm not some 18 year old kid who doesn't understand what happened, or what's happening with the realestate market. I was telling people a year before it crashed that it was going to happen!....

[user_id]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Whaaaaaaaat?......... You're using words like "some spectulators" and "only a small number of people benefited"? lol lol lol .... There was money being made hand over fist for a decade. Ya, now the bubbles bursted, but leading up to it? More people than you can shake a stick out made money in the realestate market over the last ten years. For you to somehow downplay it, well it's like you're trying to "deny" it!...

I'm sorry but this just is not the case. The vast majority of home owners did not benefit from it. In order to benefit you had to identify the arbitrage opportunity. Most people have an aversion to renting, so it was not common to sell then rent. If you sold and bought another house in the same area, well you lost all the money you thought you had. This leaves the folks that sold in high priced markets and moved to markets with affordable housing, but these areas are not your "international cities". I have a relative that sold a crappy Condo in Los Angeles for $350k and bought a huge house in Atlanta 2-3 years ago.

In terms of investors, the only ones that made money where the ones that flipped houses and stopped before the market collapsed. But usually the greed was so much and they did not stop and got caught with their pants down. The flippers were all highly leveraged so even small loses would wipe them clean (similarly for the investment banks, etc).

So yes, Realtors, investors, individual home owners, mortgage brokers etc made money. But it was all based on corruption. And yet you mock Pittsburgh for not participating in this mania, its rather ridiculous really.

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

...But for all those who bought in the late 90's and early 2000's, then sold, they made a KILLING!

So what? Its funny money and will just be sucked out of the economy later.

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

You can save your breath with the Realestate 101 with me. Honestly, you're just wasting your time.

If you truly understand what is happening then mocking Pittsburgh for not participating in it is rather inane. It caused fair more damage than good, yet you mock Pittsburgh?!?! You should be mocking San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Miami and all the bubble zones.

This just goes to show that you what to make fun of Pittsburgh regardless of the issue. I'm sure if Pittsburgh murder rate went down you'd twist it into something negative, like I don't know, Pittsburgher's can't afford guns?

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by user_id

I'm sorry but this just is not the case. The vast majority of home owners did not benefit from it. In order to benefit you had to identify the arbitrage opportunity. Most people have an aversion to renting, so it was not common to sell then rent. If you sold and bought another house in the same area, well you lost all the money you thought you had. This leaves the folks that sold in high priced markets and moved to markets with affordable housing, but these areas are not your "international cities". I have a relative that sold a crappy Condo in Los Angeles for $350k and bought a huge house in Atlanta 2-3 years ago.

In terms of investors, the only ones that made money where the ones that flipped houses and stopped before the market collapsed. But usually the greed was so much and they did not stop and got caught with their pants down. The flippers were all highly leveraged so even small loses would wipe them clean (similarly for the investment banks, etc).

So yes, Realtors, investors, individual home owners, mortgage brokers etc made money. But it was all based on corruption. And yet you mock Pittsburgh for not participating in this mania, its rather ridiculous really.


So what? Its funny money and will just be sucked out of the economy later.


If you truly understand what is happening then mocking Pittsburgh for not participating in it is rather inane. It caused fair more damage than good, yet you mock Pittsburgh?!?! You should be mocking San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Miami and all the bubble zones.

This just goes to show that you what to make fun of Pittsburgh regardless of the issue. I'm sure if Pittsburgh murder rate went down you'd twist it into something negative, like I don't know, Pittsburgher's can't afford guns?

The basic line is that Pittsburgh wasn't invited to the party so it doesn't have the hangover.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by user_id

I'm sorry but this just is not the case. The vast majority of home owners did not benefit from it. In order to benefit you had to identify the arbitrage opportunity. Most people have an aversion to renting, so it was not common to sell then rent. If you sold and bought another house in the same area, well you lost all the money you thought you had. This leaves the folks that sold in high priced markets and moved to markets with affordable housing, but these areas are not your "international cities". I have a relative that sold a crappy Condo in Los Angeles for $350k and bought a huge house in Atlanta 2-3 years ago.

In terms of investors, the only ones that made money where the ones that flipped houses and stopped before the market collapsed. But usually the greed was so much and they did not stop and got caught with their pants down. The flippers were all highly leveraged so even small loses would wipe them clean (similarly for the investment banks, etc).

So yes, Realtors, investors, individual home owners, mortgage brokers etc made money. But it was all based on corruption. And yet you mock Pittsburgh for not participating in this mania, its rather ridiculous really.


So what? Its funny money and will just be sucked out of the economy later.


If you truly understand what is happening then mocking Pittsburgh for not participating in it is rather inane. It caused fair more damage than good, yet you mock Pittsburgh?!?! You should be mocking San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Miami and all the bubble zones.

This just goes to show that you what to make fun of Pittsburgh regardless of the issue. I'm sure if Pittsburgh murder rate went down you'd twist it into something negative, like I don't know, Pittsburgher's can't afford guns?

Home owners or investors? There is a BIG difference. Someone who bought a house to live in, as opposed to renting it an flipping it a few years later is a BIG difference! You seem to be clueless on this concept!...

There were "investors" who got with their pants down, but many others who didn't! I've met quite a few people in my travels, that are now retired because "flipping" properties. Either they completely cashed out, or they reinvested into rental property which gives them enough 'passive' income to enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle without working anymore!... And most of these people were in their 40's!....

Mocking Pittsburgh? I guess stating 'facts' to you is "mocking"?.......

P.S. AGAIN, you're trying to 'explain' things to me. The thing is, I already KNOW these things. Preach to someone who doesn't understand what happen in the realestate market!

[user_id]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Someone who bought a house to live in, as opposed to renting it an flipping it a few years later is a BIG difference!

Flippers typical do not rent out the properties. They want to hold them as short as possible.

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

that are now retired because "flipping" properties. Either they completely cashed out, or they reinvested into rental property which gives them enough 'passive' income to enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle without working anymore!..

I'm not denying that some people made money, but the money was made at the cost of others. For every flipper that made money there is now someone, often an innocent family, holding the bag. People make money all the time in Vegas too, but so what? A volatile real estate market is not an assets, its horrible for businesses and working individuals.

While some sleazy flippers were making money in the bubble areas, educated middle-class families were leaving, businesses were leaving etc. Not sure why you want to glorify this....

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Mocking Pittsburgh? I guess stating 'facts' to you is "mocking"?.

Seriously? We are both stating the same facts, yet here we are debating. Why? Because you are spinning the facts into something ridiculous. If you stopped at the facts all would be well. Pittsburgh real estate as a whole did not appreciate much over the last decade. Nobody denies that.

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

P.S. AGAIN, you're trying to 'explain' things to me. The thing is, I already KNOW these things.

And again, if you would stop saying things that indicate that you don't understand them I would not do this.

[Yac]

Enough of this.
Thread closed.
Yac.