Why is Pittsburgh so cheap? (Carnegie, Norwood: buying, school, salary)

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by onwardandupward

You've said in previous posts that it's been over 20 years since you've lived in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure you realize how much has changed statistically in those 20 years - we're much less of a blue collar city now. In the latest rankings of cities' populations' educational attainment, Pittsburgh ranked 17th. Seattle and San Diego were tied for 15th and 16th, and D. C. ranked 13th - not a whole lot of difference between them.

Source: America's Most Literate Cities of 2008

My man, you better re-read all my post. I said 20 years since I seen a certain area or neighborhood! Please with that Pittsburgh 'changing' too. All my family still lives there, believe me, I know it hasn't change all that much. I know they built up the areas along the old mills some, but the city's center core hasn't changed all that much. Last time I was there was 3 years ago.

[onwardandupward]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

If you lived in DC or other cities like Seattle or San Fran, I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about. This is, probably the ONLY reason Pittsburgh hasn't ever become 'hip' on the national level. Alot of people would rather rent in 'those' other cities, than be homeowners in Pittsburgh.

Many of my fellow graduate students, who come from places like Chicago, D.C., and Boston, are trying hard to find positions here precisely because of the city's affordability - especially if they have a family.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by onwardandupward

You've said in previous posts that it's been over 20 years since you've lived in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure you realize how much has changed statistically in those 20 years - we're much less of a blue collar city now. In the latest rankings of cities' populations' educational attainment, Pittsburgh ranked 17th. Seattle and San Diego were tied for 15th and 16th, and D. C. ranked 13th - not a whole lot of difference between them.

Source: America's Most Literate Cities of 2008

Another thing, looked at the stats and see what cities are the MOST educated. You will see Seattle and San Fran as 1st & 2nd. The criteria they listed was for people being literate, NOT EDUCATED. Big difference between being able to read a newspaper or magazine, and being a college graduate. Seattle's city population is scary in this regard. I think it's like around 40% of the city's population has ATLEAST a bachelor's deegree.

[onwardandupward]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

My man, you better re-read all my post. I said 20 years since I seen a certain area or neighborhood! Please with that Pittsburgh 'changing' too. All my family still lives there, believe me, I know it hasn't change all that much. I know they built up the areas along the old mills some, but the city's center core hasn't changed all that much. Last time I was there was 3 years ago.

I didn't assume that it had been 20 years since you've been here - what I'm saying is that the demographics of the city have changed - the population is much more educated as a whole than it was 20 years ago.

[onwardandupward]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Another thing, looked at the stats and see what cities are the MOST educated. You will see Seattle and San Fran as 1st & 2nd. The criteria they listed was for people being literate, NOT EDUCATED. Big difference between being able to read a newspaper or magazine, and being a college graduate. Seattle's city population is scary in this regard. I think it's like around 40% of the city's population has ATLEAST a bachelor's deegree.

You need to re-read the source - you've got the measures mixed up. The stats that I gave ARE the educational attainment stats - such as numbers of college graduates, which is a sub-category of the overall composite score of "most literate." Minneapolis and Seattle are no. 1 and 2 for "most literate," NOT for "educational attainment. The figures I gave in the previous post about this WERE for "educational attainment."

[Drover]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Wexford? That's the suburb right before Cranberry! lol Baldwin, you mean in the south hills? Turtle creek? Are you trying to list suburbs that are the furthest away or have really hard commutes into downtown?

How about someone who lives off Mcknight Road? Pretty easy commute into downtown, along with having a ton of stuff right along Mcknight Road at their finger tips.

See, to me, Morningside feels like a suburb with the benefits of one. Maybe that nabe is right up your alley, it's not for me though.

5 miles of city driving in Chicago didn't feel any different to me. In fact, I think Pittsburgh has more red lights cause the city blocks are smaller. It's been years since I've been in Pittsburgh, but I don't remember a difference. Now the Dan Ryan, ya that's a different story.

The only "apples and organges", are the ones you brought to the table.

Does McKnight Road have the zoo right at its fingertips? How about the cultural district? How about a major park? Art galleries? Museums? The Strip District market? That's the difference between city living and suburban living. Generally, McKnight Road doesn't have anything the city doesn't. The same doesn't work in reverse. If 5 miles makes that much difference to you as you claim, then certainly being within 5 miles of these amenities is more convenient, no?

And believe me, driving in Pittsburgh versus driving in Chicago is not even remotely comparable.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by onwardandupward

Many of my fellow graduate students, who come from places like Chicago, D.C., and Boston, are trying hard to find positions here precisely because of the city's affordability - especially if they have a family.

God bless 'em. I could never live back in Pittsburgh myself. I'm very proud to have been born and raised there. And I'm proud of all that Pittsburgh has contributed to the world, including the STEELERS!

I wouldn't ever tell someone not to move there. But after living in different cities like Chicago and NYC, Pittsburgh fails in comparison. I'm just a working stiff, but the differences between Pittsburgh and those other cities you listed, are night and day. I went back to Pittsburgh a few times and tried living there again, it just wasn't happening.

It's funny, certain things that I'd complain about when living, in say Chicago, I'd miss after being back in Pittsburgh for just a few weeks. I felt that way about Philly too, the year I lived there, it couldn't compare to Chicago. I like living in cities that are multi-cutured with an international feel to them. That's why I said in different post that Philly just felt like a big Pittsburgh to me, it didn't have that 'world class city' feel to it.

If people are able to make that change and enjoy Pittsburgh, I'm happy for them. Me personally though, I just can't. I've seen too much and done too much outside of Pittsburgh to ever to be able to live there again. It's a great little city though, just not for me anymore.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Drover

Does McKnight Road have the zoo right at its fingertips? How about the cultural district? How about a major park? Art galleries? Museums? The Strip District market? That's the difference between city living and suburban living. Generally, McKnight Road doesn't have anything the city doesn't. The same doesn't work in reverse. If 5 miles makes that much difference to you as you claim, then certainly being within 5 miles of these amenities is more convenient, no?

And believe me, driving in Pittsburgh versus driving in Chicago is not even remotely comparable.

How many times a year are you really going to the zoo? Museums and Art galleries? I think you have the Morningside crowd mixed up with the Shadyside one! Strip district, did you run down there everyday for fresh produce or something? You forget, I'm FROM Pittsburgh, as is ALL my family. Don't go telling me the average Morningside'er is running to art galleries and museums on ANY kind of regular basis.

See I ENJOY city living, in fact, I depise the burbs to be honest with you. That's why I don't like Morningside, I like walkability, PERIOD!

Not even remotely comparable? I've done both, many times, are you denying that? Depending on the time of day of course. I'm know the peek hrs are worse in Chicago than Pittsburgh.

[Drover]

Yes, you keep telling us about what YOU prefer and what YOU despise. Is anyone going to avail themselves of ALL of these things on any given day? No. But it's easier to exercise any or all of these options than if you don't live anywhere near them. That's what Pittsburgh city living delivers: more options, more conveniently.

You asked for an explanation of how city living is convenient in Pittsburgh. I'm trying to explain to you how it is convenient. What I didn't realize is that you meant how it would be convenient for your preferences rather than convenient for the preferences of those who live in the city because, well, they find it convenient. You seem incapable of seeing it from anyone's perspective but your own. Which goes a long way toward explaining your apparent astonishment that anyone would pay $200K for a house in Morningside.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Drover

Yes, you keep telling us about what YOU prefer and what YOU despise. You asked for an explanation of how city living is convenient in Pittsburgh. I'm trying to explain to you how it is convenient. What I didn't realize is that you meant how it would be convenient for your preferences rather than convenient for the preferences of those who live in the city because, well, they find it convenient. You seem incapable of seeing it from anyone's perspective but your own. Which goes a long way toward your astonishment that anyone would pay $200K for a house in Morningside.

200k in Morningside! lol lol lol Please, you're killing me! Hey, if it's such a great deal there in Morningside, why don't you leave Chicago and go buy a house there? You could get up everday and go to the Strip District for your produce, then hurry back for quick tour of the zoo, then run to an art gallery, talk a quick walk in the park, then off to a musuem. lol

I didn't ask "how city living" was or is, in Pittsburgh, I grew up there, I know how it is. My beef is with Morningside, but YOU like to twist everything around and start comparing commutes between there and Cranberry (which I believe is located in a different county). What YOU consider to be a good quality city neighborhood is alot different than mine. How would Morningside rank in the city of Chicago in terms of walkability?

And by the way, when 'someone' is giving 'their' point of view, it will ALWAYS be what 'they' "prefer" or "depise".