Pittsburgh Should Be Ashamed At Urban Plight (York, Denver: house, unemployment rate)

[MarqueseGilmore]

Originally Posted by Katiana

From what I have read, (I have done my research), this was happening in the 1930s. By the late 60s, when I was a Pitt student, the Hill had changed a lot.

The robotics issue was discussed very thorougly back in May on this thread, which is still ongoing:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/pitts...-leavable.html

Watch Wiley Avenue days.....I believe you can watch it online,if not google it.

[aveojohn]

[quote=MarqueseGilmore;7701639][quote=aveojohn;7573875]

Originally Posted by MarqueseGilmore

I did answer your question..........I didn't answer it the way you want me to!! If you respect your surroundings then your surroundings will respect you and you don't have to worry about shoplifting or getting robbed.

Bull, if you open a store, people should respect the fact that you invested your time and money to turn a profit not get robbed blind.The owner has no obligation to hire anyone from the community in which his/her store exists.I think your idea of respect is a little different than mine. I was taught not to steal, regardless of how I felt about the owner. Respect has little to do with it, it's about moral values, something many people lack today. Mark my word, the grocery store being built in the Hill, will close within 2 to 5 years.

[Randy@Tacoma]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

Almost ANYTIME "The Urban Situation" is brought up, regardless of what city its being discussed in, the thread usually devolves into yet another "race" thread.... which is NOT to say race doesn't play a part in ideas like "Urban Renewal", "gentrification", and the like.... but i think the failed programs of America circa 1920 - 2009 can be attributed to one major thing, which no one will want to touch:

"Liberal Politics".


I say this, because it is liberal politics which has largely promulgated the ideas of "Equality At All Costs", while not actually providing a realistic means FOR the minority communities they claim to represent to actually DIG OUT of the MINDSET of "Ghettonomics"....

We've changed our speech to say "African-American" instead of "black".... we've changed the word from "slum" to "Housing"..... we've instituted "Affirmative Action" quotas across the land.....we've done all these "FEEL GOOD" political things which are designed to make people THINK we're doing something about the problem, but in reality, those at the bottom end of the socio-economic scale are still not much, if any, better off than they were back in the 1920's.... sure, they have the right to vote and legaly, they cannot be discriminated against when it comes to jobs, etc... but have ANY of these feel-good programs and policies actually done ANYTHING to change the "plight" of those who live IN "blight"????



Everyone is too afraid to lay blame where it belongs and no one wants to assume personal responsibility for their own actions, anymore. Until these two things are addressed at a fundamental level, the FAMILY level, then nothing much will EVER change for the poor or the minorities, who live IN these areas.

Businesses don't wanna' invest in these areas once they see the gang tags on the walls and study the local crime statistics.... middle-class families don't wanna' move in there either... so, without the capital investment needed to spur new job growth and ways to keep the local money IN the community, the cycle has no choice but to repeat, generation after generation....

Is it any wonder that blacks today are angrier and more discontent than ever before?... Even before Civil Rights came along?!?!?!?!

If, after all these programs and government policies have run their course and we STILL can't find a way to get people to lift themselves out of the poverty and oppression that inevitably fosters itself within blighted areas over time, then there comes a point where we as a nation have to say, "Okay--we've done all we can for you. You have to do for yourself, now"... and we turn our backs, until those who live there learn to adopt more socially-responsible behavior that helps foster growth instead of misery and oppression.....

I know this is a hard position to take, and I'm sure I'll be lambasted for it, as being a racist, somehow..... but all I can say is that I was brought up to be responsible for my own actions, and that no government program would save me from myself..... if I didn't do for me and mine, and play by the rules of society, then I'd have no one to blame, but myself.




Don't blame "Pittsburgh" for the blight here... blame the "Pittsburghers" who contribute to it.....

I completely agree with you - minus one thing: "Liberal Politics". Liberal economic policies are to blame for this: free market, free trade, low taxes, blah blah blah. They've been dressed up to sound nice and appealing much the same way calling someone African American versus black does. The fact of the matter is free trade has killed to economy of Pittsburgh. Being a blue collar town, Pittsburgh was built on industry. Industry was shipped overseas thanks to Reagen economics. The underlying philosphy: profit at all cost: the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. In Pittsburgh, in its industrial days, the white workers were hired first and had a much longer history and connection with the company they worked for. Then came the African American workers in the early 1900's, before the industrial collapse in the area. If you were the most recently hired employee, you were also the first to be let go if needed.

I work just as hard as every other man. But my job is provided to me because of the politics of economics. I work in the Seattle area, and the trade with Asia is the main component of our economic success. Take that away, and we've got nothing else.

Don't look at things in a black or white fashion - most things lie is an area the shade of grey. You cannot classify someone as "liberal" or "conservative". You may be a social liberal (gay marriage, peace, love, blah blah) and at the same time not be an economic liberal (free trade, etc.), or vice versa or the opposite (social conservative, economic liberal, economic conservative, blah blah blah), whichever way you want to look at it....

I completely agree: people must accept responsibility for their actions. ABSOLUTELY! That's music to my ears... You also must take a minute to put your feet in someone else's shoes. Disadvantaged people living in the Hill District aren't afforded the same opportunities as people in Shadyside. That's obvious. Most jobs are landed because of social networks. If know only people who have no jobs, how are you supposed to get a job? That does not give anyone an excuse to steal, murder, rape, etc., but if you had nothing to wake up for each day and your life seemed nearly hopeless, what can you expect?

We should be creating economic policies that take into account everyone's needs, since we are a VERY diverse society. Quit sugar coating things and be real: does it really matter if you're called black vs. African American? Or does it really matter that every American is given the equal opportunity to achieve happiness in his/her life? Take your pick.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

Developments like these are always nice additions to any city.... but I guess my concerns would revolve around one idea:

ONCE WE "REMAKE" ONE AREA AND PRICE IT OUT OF THE REACH OF THE POOR, WON'T THE POOR SIMPLY UP & MOVE TO ANOTHER AREA, LIKE A MOUNT OLIVER-TYPE AREA, AND MAKE IT POORER, AND THEN THE CYCLE OF URBANIZATION, GENTRYICATION AND RENEWAL BEGINS AGAIN???

(Sorry or the caps... my bad...)

We can make the Hill District nice again, and they'll move adjacent to it... and this cycle can repeat itself all over the metro area, so long as there's a bus line.... what needs to happen to reduce and/or eliminate "blight", is for the city to take a stand against it and enforce laws that are, likely, already on the books....

* Fine landlords who allow their properties to become nuisances...
* Treat graffiti crimes like serious crimes and not as "mischief"...
* Start local-area Job Corps branches to recruit local applicants to local-area jobs
* Offer incentives to new employers who move into blighted areas. "T.I.F. (Tax Increment Financing) Districts" have ben shown to work in some cases like this...


I the city is serious about cleaning up its image and remaining one of the Most Liveable Places in the U.S., then it should start the ball rolling NOW, while the economy is down.... beore more areas join those, which we already think of as "blighted"...

I agree with all these ideas, save for fining landlords who allow their properties to become nuisances. While I'm not against fining per se, I think fining landlords has a strong possibility of actually making an area worse as landlords may then give up on the property altogether (as happened throughout the Bronx in the 70s and 80s). It seems that giving incentives to improve a property is a better conduit for coaxing landlords to better their property.

[MarqueseGilmore]

[quote=aveojohn;7727398][quote=MarqueseGilmore;7701639]

Originally Posted by aveojohn

Bull, if you open a store, people should respect the fact that you invested your time and money to turn a profit not get robbed blind.The owner has no obligation to hire anyone from the community in which his/her store exists.I think your idea of respect is a little different than mine. I was taught not to steal, regardless of how I felt about the owner. Respect has little to do with it, it's about moral values, something many people lack today. Mark my word, the grocery store being built in the Hill, will close within 2 to 5 years.

You have to not think so one-sided and take in consideration that the residents of The Hill don't have all the advantages that people who live in Mt. Lebanon have. The difference between a place like The Hill for example and Mt. Lebanon are priveleges and advantages. You have kids who don't have a father or a mother so they have to work twenty times harder than a priveleged kid from Mt. Lebanon who's parents have college money set aside for them. These kids from the Hill district,for example need to know that they don't have to steal or vandal stores etc. to get money. You guys have to step outside your little priveleged box and see whats going on in the world. Some of the same things that go on in third world countries go on right here in the US, some of you are just too blind to see.

[bboy36win]

Originally Posted by MarqueseGilmore

You guys have to step outside your little priveleged box and see whats going on in the world. Some of the same things that go on in third world countries go on right here in the US, some of you are just too blind to see.

I don't know much about growing up in the Hill District, but I can assure you that this type of acrimony won't help them.

[MarqueseGilmore]

Originally Posted by bboy36win

I don't know much about growing up in the Hill District, but I can assure you that this type of acrimony won't help them.

I'm just raising the mirror to those who are blind to the realities of the matter.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by MarqueseGilmore

You have to not think so one-sided and take in consideration that the residents of The Hill don't have all the advantages that people who live in Mt. Lebanon have. The difference between a place like The Hill for example and Mt. Lebanon are priveleges and advantages. You have kids who don't have a father or a mother so they have to work twenty times harder than a priveleged kid from Mt. Lebanon who's parents have college money set aside for them. These kids from the Hill district,for example need to know that they don't have to steal or vandal stores etc. to get money. You guys have to step outside your little priveleged box and see whats going on in the world. Some of the same things that go on in third world countries go on right here in the US, some of you are just too blind to see.

I really don't want to get into an argument here, but I don't think that saying someone is poor is justification (or the reason) for stealing. Philippi West Virginia is one of the poorest areas in the country, yet the crime rate is staggeringly low. You can be poor and respect others' property at the same time.

[Katiana]

^^^Too true! There was a headline in Sunday's Denver Post that crime has gone down as unemployment has gone up! This is apparently a national trend.

[Randy@Tacoma]

Thats great! And I completely agree - there is no reason to steal. All I am suggesting, much like what was previously mentioned, is to step outside of your box of privilege and work to understand this phenomena, rather than labeling your value system to it. We should be providing opportunity for people so they don't feel they have no other options but to steal.

Also, Philipi, WV is NOWHERE near as poor as the urban ghettos in most cities across this country. Its not even a fair comparison.