Are Pittsburgers' Smarter Than We Think? (Pittsburgh, State College: real estate, apartment, loan)

[DSOs]

I mentioned a while back that most of the negatives expressed about Pittsburgh I consider a plus. The ranting about no youth, no jobs, no growth, stagnate population, etc... is heard loud & clear.

I think Pittsburghers' are quietly/patiently waiting for this real estate/growth mess to run its course before they decide on how to intelligently transform themselves. As been stated in several different forums on City-Data this real estate/growth mess is creating resentment, shoddy building, higher taxes, crime, etc... in many American cities.

PA/Pittsburgh may be learning from their 'sprawl' mistakes of the 1970-1990s? I'll see you guys this Summer!

[Drover]

Your theory becomes particularly unconvincing when one considers that there has been substantial out-migration/sprawling from the city itself and inner-ring suburbs to the outer areas. The amount of developed land in the Pittsburgh metro has increased substantially even as the total area population has remained the same for decades. The metro area is sprawling even without the impetus of population growth.

[DSOs]

Originally Posted by Drover

Your theory becomes particularly unconvincing when one considers that there has been substantial out-migration/sprawling from the city itself and inner-ring suburbs to the outer areas. The amount of developed land in the Pittsburgh metro has increased substantially even as the total area population has remained the same for decades. The metro area is sprawling even without the impetus of population growth.

Dover,

I'm not too familiar with Pittsburgh as a whole; I did visit Cranberry/Mars last spring so I hear you. IMHO the migration out of any city proper seems to be a symptom rather than a plan but again I hear you.

I'm just trying to psyche myself out for the big move!

[Drover]

For what it's worth, Pittsburgh's sprawl isn't as outrageous as in many other metro areas precisely because it is not being turbocharged by population growth.

I don't know where you're moving from or what you look for in a city, but despite all its warts and flaws, Pittsburgh has a mesmerizing effect on a lot of people who visit or move there. As I've mentioned in seveal other threads, my ex and I liked it enough that we tried to stay there after she graduated from school. Much of the city and some of the suburbs are dripping with old-school charm and soul (though that may be old hat for you since it appears you're originally from the NYC area), and you can buy a piece of it for dirt-cheap. The people are wonderful once they get over their suspicions of you as an outsider, the nightlife is lively (as long as you're not looking for a NYC/L.A./Chicago high-fashion cosmopolitan experience), there is an incredible beer culture in the Pittsburgh metro area -- something you may not care about but it's important to me -- and of course you've got all the recreational opportunities associated with being right at the back door of the mountains. I found that all these things outshone the area's drawbacks: lousy job market (not much of an issue if you've already got something lined up), a merely adequate culinary scene, limited local indie music scene, horrid streets and other infrastructure problems, and unruly taxes if you're a property owner.

The more I ponder how huge my school loan payment will be once I graduate, in conjunction with how much housing costs here in the Chicago, the more attractive Pittsburgh becomes once it's time to settle down somewhere.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by pmzenith

I mentioned a while back that most of the negatives expressed about Pittsburgh I consider a plus. The ranting about no youth, no jobs, no growth, stagnate population, etc... is heard loud & clear.

I think Pittsburghers' are quietly/patiently waiting for this real estate/growth mess to run its course before they decide on how to intelligently transform themselves. As been stated in several different forums on City-Data this real estate/growth mess is creating resentment, shoddy building, higher taxes, crime, etc... in many American cities.

PA/Pittsburgh may be learning from their 'sprawl' mistakes of the 1970-1990s? I'll see you guys this Summer!

You really need to review Pittsburgh's history. Also look at some other threads on this forum. In brief (very brief): Pittsburgh has been waiting patiently for at least 25 yrs to revitalize from the collaspe of the steel industry. I truly don't know if it will ever happen. The entire metro area has been losing population for decades. Nor has the construction industry been booming for many decades. In my hometown of Beaver Falls, the last house built was in, I beleive, 1997. Pittsburgh's problems are not the same as say, Denver's problems with too-rapid growth in the 1990s. There are more deaths than births and little in-migration.

Still, Drover is right. The place has a certain charm. You will probably like it. Autumn, which you will not see for some months after you move there, is beautiful. Housing is inexpensive, but, in my opinion, not that cheap for most places you would really want to live in. Good luck with your move!

[DSOs]

pittnurse 70, Pa has been on our radar for more than 2 years. We have been living in Stepford, NC for the past 6 years so I now know how important it is to research an area. Before I moved to NC I couldn't tell the difference between an Iranian & an Irishman; that's all changed now. More to your point (?) I understand the mature, blue collar industrial working class.

I really learned alot of other aspects of Pittsburgh & Pittsburgh proper from this forum. Several posts from Drover & others are well rounded & I must thank chinejim for taking my rosey colored glasses & stomping them to the ground.

We have visited Carlisle, State College, Greensburg, Latrobe, Monroeville, Tarentum, Lower Burrell, Apollo, Kittaning, Saxonburg, Cranberry/Mars, Zellenople, & Butler. We decided on Lower Burrell because there are several apartment communities, it's close to Pittsburgh & is a very nice place.

[Katiana]

My point was this: Pittsburgh has been talking about "turning around" for 25 yrs. I will probably not live long enough to see it happen. A city with few youth is a dying city. There is no more industrial, blue collar working class left in Pgh to speak of.

[guylocke]

Lower Burrell is where I'm originally from!! lol

[DSOs]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

My point was this: Pittsburgh has been talking about "turning around" for 25 yrs. I will probably not live long enough to see it happen. A city with few youth is a dying city. There is no more industrial, blue collar working class left in Pgh to speak of.

From what I see a good percentage of 'youth' has lost their way (please don't take offense I'm trying to make a point). Managing money is rough for youth today; college debt, future high tech jobs going overseas, etc...

'Youth' wants quality of life, great schools, a college education, large new homes with low property taxes, but it's hard to pay for it.

For the last 25 yrs Pittsburgh may have been aimlessly dreaming for the steel industry to come back; but let me tell you this country better come up with something because it's going to be a lot harder to globally compete for the high tech jobs than manufacturing jobs.

[Stonecoldharbours]

but there are no jobs for the young people anymore, esp those in blue collar working towns, today people need to get at least a four year degree and move out of the area, so sad, hope things change cause PGH is truly a beautiful state with good people, not as some say, or want to believe that is.