Pittsburgh is as "hip" as you want it to be (Denver: for rent, crime rate)

[Awesomo.2000]

Originally Posted by raynist

ok, found this info on Wiki History of Pittsburgh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , not sure how valid, but while the city itself lost tons of people, the metro area seemed to absorb a good portion of them.

1950
City 676,80612
Urbanized Area 1,533,000

1960
City 604,332
Urban 1,804,000

1970
City 540,025
Urban 1,846,000

1980
City 423,938
Urban 1,810,000

1990
City 369,879
Urban 1,678,000

2000
City 334,563
Urban 1,753,000

Thanks for looking up the link. You are right. People say the city lost Half of its population, but much of that happend in the white flight suburbian building time period, and the metro didn't lose anywhere near half. Although the metro did lose.

650,000 is one crowded and dense Pittsburgh.

[Awesomo.2000]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I posted some stats on that at one time in the distant past. You could do a search. It is lower for CMU grads than Robert Morris, or was it Point Park? That's all I remember now.

But that makes sense. CMU students are much more international, or come from over the states. Robert Morris and Point Park are more local schools. It is obvious majority of CMU students will be leaving after graduation.

[Blackbeauty212]

I would really challenge any Pittsburgh'er to make it in the "Ulta-Hip NYC" for more then 3 yrs (when most people say the glitz and glam of NY starts to wear off)....

This whole thing of Pittsburgh not being "Hip enough" is laughable....Let me just point out Philadelphia which people seem to love make look more progressive and "hip" then Pittsburgh, also was going thru a crisis of Losing population for the last 12-13 years, it only slowed in the last 3 years I wanna say.

We can talk about Downtowns all day....But let fact be known, very few cities in the country are built on Neighborhoods like Pittsburgh, rather then their Downtowns. Even NYC outside of Manhattan, only places like Park Slope, Bay Ridge in Brooklyn.....Queens Blvd and Long Island City in Queens are the only neighborhoods that are lively like Pittsburgh's and that's pretty small for a City of 10million people.

Yes Pittsburgh has issue its needs to resolve, like ALL CITIES....For one the City Hall needs fresh thinking, I really can't tell from NY if Ravenstahl is that guy, or if he's just a puppet for "Old" status quo government. I would've hoped with him being young the mindset of city would completely change.

One of Pittsburgh's problem's is it gets Almost no attention from the Nation, so jobs and people dont even have it on the Radar...But that may change because people/Media are starting to Notice Pittsburgh with how much better its weathering the Recession then the other cities.

So of the Rust Belts Cities - Pittsburgh is the MOST Hip is another way of looking at it IMO.

Please stop comparing Pittsburgh to Chicago, NY, DC, Pheinox, San Fran, all these cities that are twice as big as Pittsburgh, its not fair to behonest. Then maybe the fact people keep trying to compare Pittsburgh to the larger cities should say something as well. Dont see many trying to compare Cleveland, Columbus, Buffalo, St Louis to much larger cities, so why Pittsburgh?

[Copanut]

I won't argue the fact that most steel jobs were grunt work. But the money those workers made allowed other ancillary business to thrive. Insurance, automobile, retail, were all making money off the steel industry.

Downtown, which is predominantly white collar, is not as busy as it was back in the 70's. The number of people working downtown has been declining over the years.

As to 6 figures at Kaufmanns, all I know is what a fellow college grad made when he started working there in the mid 70's, he was pulling down some heavy coin.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I
This whole thing of Pittsburgh not being "Hip enough" is laughable....Let me just point out Philadelphia which people seem to love make look more progressive and "hip" then Pittsburgh, also was going thru a crisis of Losing population for the last 12-13 years, it only slowed in the last 3 years I wanna say.

We can talk about Downtowns all day....But let fact be known, very few cities in the country are built on Neighborhoods like Pittsburgh, rather then their Downtowns.

many cities have been built on their neighborhoods like 'ittsbrugh, it's jsut that so few remain intact. Even Philadelphia (which truth be known is both hip and unhip) had absolutely no downtown scene at all just 15 years ago. the neighborhoods was where the action was. the problem of course is that downtowns are the face of a city, the one everyone sees when they visit. if you're downtown is shabby, then people think you're city is shabby, for better or worse.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

One of Pittsburgh's problem's is it gets Almost no attention from the Nation, so jobs and people dont even have it on the Radar...But that may change because people/Media are starting to Notice Pittsburgh with how much better its weathering the Recession then the other cities.

there are really two steps. one is to improve the place, the other to get noticed. pittsburgh suffers from both lack fo media exposure and connectivity. unlike Philadelphia, it's not an 80 minute train ride from nyc (which is a huge pool of potential new residents since nyc is a gateway).
Also, I'll take Pitt over Phoenix any day. As for St. Louis, how sad. that used to be a great city too..and detroit.

[ExPit]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

I don't know. I know that in 1950', the city of Pittsburgh had over 676,000 people. Now it's a little over 312,000 people. I'm sure white flight caused the metro area to swell some. As well as the suburbs being devolved as well.

To be honest though, Allegheny county is what I consider to be Pittsburgh's metro. It's not like, say in Chicago, where their different counties are basically their suburbs. It's not like someone would consider Westmoreland county a suburb of Pittsburgh. The counties outside of Allegheny are much more detached, and I'm sure you have fewer commuters into the city of Pittsburgh, as compared to a city like Chicago.

P.S. The reason I brought Allegheny county up, is cause they consider Pittsburgh's "metro area" to be 7 counties. I don't see that at all.

I agree with this. Despite boundary lines, when we're talking about Pgh as a life experience in work, play, shopping, socializing, etc. how can we not include places like Green Tree, Dormont, Mt. Lebanon, Wilkinsburg, etc.?

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I would really challenge any Pittsburgh'er to make it in the "Ulta-Hip NYC" for more then 3 yrs (when most people say the glitz and glam of NY starts to wear off)....

This whole thing of Pittsburgh not being "Hip enough" is laughable....Let me just point out Philadelphia which people seem to love make look more progressive and "hip" then Pittsburgh, also was going thru a crisis of Losing population for the last 12-13 years, it only slowed in the last 3 years I wanna say.

We can talk about Downtowns all day....But let fact be known, very few cities in the country are built on Neighborhoods like Pittsburgh, rather then their Downtowns. Even NYC outside of Manhattan, only places like Park Slope, Bay Ridge in Brooklyn.....Queens Blvd and Long Island City in Queens are the only neighborhoods that are lively like Pittsburgh's and that's pretty small for a City of 10million people.

Yes Pittsburgh has issue its needs to resolve, like ALL CITIES....For one the City Hall needs fresh thinking, I really can't tell from NY if Ravenstahl is that guy, or if he's just a puppet for "Old" status quo government. I would've hoped with him being young the mindset of city would completely change.

One of Pittsburgh's problem's is it gets Almost no attention from the Nation, so jobs and people dont even have it on the Radar...But that may change because people/Media are starting to Notice Pittsburgh with how much better its weathering the Recession then the other cities.

So of the Rust Belts Cities - Pittsburgh is the MOST Hip is another way of looking at it IMO.

Please stop comparing Pittsburgh to Chicago, NY, DC, Pheinox, San Fran, all these cities that are twice as big as Pittsburgh, its not fair to behonest. Then maybe the fact people keep trying to compare Pittsburgh to the larger cities should say something as well. Dont see many trying to compare Cleveland, Columbus, Buffalo, St Louis to much larger cities, so why Pittsburgh?

First thing, I don't agree one bit with your NYC assement (and NYC doesn't have 10 million people, it has a population of 8.2 million). Ya I know you've been living in NYC for years now. But you live in Mannhattan 'if' I'm not mistaken. Saying that ONLY a few nabes outside of Mannhattan has the vibrancy that Pittsburgh has, is VERY inaccurate. The few NYC nabes that you named, happen to be pretty pricey for the outer boroughs of NYC. I'm not sure how much time you spend in the outer-boroughs of NYC, but let me tell you, almost every nabe is more vibrant than Pittsburgh. Even College Point in Queens, is more vibrant than a lot of Pittsburgh's nabes.

Nabes like Astoria, Corona, Jackson Heights, Flushing (especially Main street) etc etc etc. And that's just a few nabes in Queens. Queens is 109 sq miles big (exactly double the sq milage of the city of Pittsburgh), with a population nearing 2.3 million people (nearly 8 times the population of Pittsburgh). To try and suggest, with all those people and density, that Pittsburgh is somehow on par with it (Queens), inaccurate to say the least! And what about Brooklyn? Who cares about Staten Island? lol The Bronx?

It's true that Philly continues to lose people like Pittsburgh. But Philly is known more to be a business type of city. I'm talking in the sense that it doesn't attract the types of people that Seattle, Portland, or Austin for example. I'm not suggesting that Philly doesn't have it's own share of "hipness" or "artsy" types, but not like the West coast. I think of Philly, I think of lawyers. Plus, after living in Philly, I've said this MANY times, to me, Philly for the most part, just seems like a larger version of Pittsburgh. I'd say that Philly is a little more "progressive" than Pittsburgh, but overall, Philly didn't feel all that "progressive" to me. Outside of a few nabes like Center City, neither did it's residents. South Philly has more than it's fare share of racist too. I heard the "N-word" being used ALL the time when I was living there. Not to mention that their crime rate is a big deterent to move there, and one for wanting to leave there.

Another thing, you say that "very few cities are built on neighborhoods". 'If' you're talking about the 'sunbelt' cities this is true. But Buffalo, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, Seattle, Portland, SF, Philly, Boston, B-more, are ones that are VERY neighborhood oriented cities. Pittsburgh in no way has a monopoly on this.

NYC "glitz" and "glam" will wear off. But when it does, look what you're left with, NYC! Sure you and others, may argue that if you can't afford to live in Mannhattan, the NYC experience ain't quite the same. Which is true to a point. But the same can be said about Pittsburgh. Living in Shadyside is a different experience than living in Lawerenceville. Sure you can visit Shadyside, but you can also visit Mannhattan too.

It all comes down to what people can afford. And if they're single or married with kids, or plan on starting a family. Someone who's single in NYC, will almost certainly have a lot more excitement and fun than living in Pittsburgh. And the opportunities that exist in NYC are also a lot greater.

You may be nearing a point in your life, that the cost of living in Pittsburgh, along with the slower pace, and better quality of life (subjective), that it's time to leave NYC and move back to the Burg. I can understand that completely. But that still doesn't change that Pittsburgh is not "hip", or percieved to be "hip". And that doesn't change the fact that the youth around Pittsburgh continue to leave. Or the fact that no new youth from outside of Pittsburgh is moving there.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by ExPit

I agree with this. Despite boundary lines, when we're talking about Pgh as a life experience in work, play, shopping, socializing, etc. how can we not include places like Green Tree, Dormont, Mt. Lebanon, Wilkinsburg, etc.?

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. My point was, I see stats where they list the Pittsburgh "metro area" at or around 2.4 million people. They are including 7 counties to get those firgures. It's a lot different than say Chicago's 9.6 million "metro area". Their metro area, for the most part, is really their suburbs. Where Pittsburgh to me, is artificially inflating those numbers. Cause those other counties don't really interact with Allegheny county like the ones in Chicago do. I guess I really mean how a lot of Chicago's will commute into Downtown Chicago for work or shopping. Where the people in Pittsburgh's 7 county metro don't, for the most part.

[Geeo]

I think the census bureau uses a percentage of people in the surrounding counties who commute to the hub county when they define metro areas. A certain percentage of people (I forget if it's 15% or more) commute from Butler, Washington, Beaver, Westmoreland, Armstrong, and Fayette to Allegheny County. And I believe that Lawrence County has been added to the Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area (CMSA) because the Rte 60 expressway has made it possible to get to Allegheny County in 40 minutes so there are more commuters from there now. It's standard across the country.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Geeo

I think the census bureau uses a percentage of people in the surrounding counties who commute to the hub county when they define metro areas. A certain percentage of people (I forget if it's 15% or more) commute from Butler, Washington, Beaver, Westmoreland, Armstrong, and Fayette to Allegheny County. And I believe that Lawrence County has been added to the Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area (CMSA) because the Rte 60 expressway has made it possible to get to Allegheny County in 40 minutes so there are more commuters from there now. It's standard across the country.

I know there are some. But if you've been to other cities, I'm sure you understand what I mean. But when comaparing cities like Chicago or NYC, they're metro areas are WAY more intergrated with the 'actual' cities themselves. Again, I'm talking about the populations and how often they visit those city centers. Whether it's for work, shopping, etc.

I spent my whole life growing up in Pittsburgh. I never went to Westmoreland county or really any of the otheres (besides of course driving thru). Like Butler, that's hardly a suburb of Pittsburgh. Where say in NYC, ones in NJ or CT are really just NYC suburbs.

The counties outside of Allegheny, are VERY country like. I just think it's a stretch considering Pittsburgh to have a 'metro area" of 2.4 million.