Pittsburgh is as "hip" as you want it to be (Washington: renting, condos)

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

First thing, I don't agree one bit with your NYC assement (and NYC doesn't have 10 million people, it has a population of 8.2 million). Ya I know you've been living in NYC for years now. But you live in Mannhattan 'if' I'm not mistaken. Saying that ONLY a few nabes outside of Mannhattan has the vibrancy that Pittsburgh has, is VERY inaccurate. The few NYC nabes that you named, happen to be pretty pricey for the outer boroughs of NYC. I'm not sure how much time you spend in the outer-boroughs of NYC, but let me tell you, almost every nabe is more vibrant than Pittsburgh. Even College Point in Queens, is more vibrant than a lot of Pittsburgh's nabes.

Nabes like Astoria, Corona, Jackson Heights, Flushing (especially Main street) etc etc etc. And that's just a few nabes in Queens. Queens is 109 sq miles big (exactly double the sq milage of the city of Pittsburgh), with a population nearing 2.3 million people (nearly 8 times the population of Pittsburgh). To try and suggest, with all those people and density, that Pittsburgh is somehow on par with it (Queens), inaccurate to say the least! And what about Brooklyn? Who cares about Staten Island? lol The Bronx?

Again comparing Pittsburgh to NYC is NOT FAIR....Only cities that can make a fair comparison to NYC are LA, Chicago and maybe SF. I really wish people would stop this.

I myself included need to stop....

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

It's true that Philly continues to lose people like Pittsburgh. But Philly is known more to be a business type of city. I'm talking in the sense that it doesn't attract the types of people that Seattle, Portland, or Austin for example. I'm not suggesting that Philly doesn't have it's own share of "hipness" or "artsy" types, but not like the West coast. I think of Philly, I think of lawyers. Plus, after living in Philly, I've said this MANY times, to me, Philly for the most part, just seems like a larger version of Pittsburgh. I'd say that Philly is a little more "progressive" than Pittsburgh, but overall, Philly didn't feel all that "progressive" to me. Outside of a few nabes like Center City, neither did it's residents. South Philly has more than it's fare share of racist too. I heard the "N-word" being used ALL the time when I was living there. Not to mention that their crime rate is a big deterent to move there, and one for wanting to leave there.

You're Right Philly is just a larger Pittsburgh more with more diverse but still largely Black and white. I lived there for 3 years before my job took me to NY..... Philly and Pittsburgh both have that same Blue Collard past...

To me the only worth exploring in Philly is Center City nabes of Philly just can't compare to Pittsburgh.

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Another thing, you say that "very few cities are built on neighborhoods". 'If' you're talking about the 'sunbelt' cities this is true. But Buffalo, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, Seattle, Portland, SF, Philly, Boston, B-more, are ones that are VERY neighborhood oriented cities. Pittsburgh in no way has a monopoly on this.

and how many cities are in the US, again not many cities can lay claim to this...If Pittsburgh had a Truely Vibrant D'town along with its nabes then it would truely be among the unique.

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

NYC "glitz" and "glam" will wear off. But when it does, look what you're left with, NYC! Sure you and others, may argue that if you can't afford to live in Mannhattan, the NYC experience ain't quite the same. Which is true to a point. But the same can be said about Pittsburgh. Living in Shadyside is a different experience than living in Lawerenceville. Sure you can visit Shadyside, but you can also visit Mannhattan too.

It all comes down to what people can afford. And if they're single or married with kids, or plan on starting a family. Someone who's single in NYC, will almost certainly have a lot more excitement and fun than living in Pittsburgh. And the opportunities that exist in NYC are also a lot greater.

You may be nearing a point in your life, that the cost of living in Pittsburgh, along with the slower pace, and better quality of life (subjective), that it's time to leave NYC and move back to the Burg. I can understand that completely. But that still doesn't change that Pittsburgh is not "hip", or percieved to be "hip". And that doesn't change the fact that the youth around Pittsburgh continue to leave. Or the fact that no new youth from outside of Pittsburgh is moving there.

I will admit I am growing alittle tired of NYC....I still love its Pulse, but all the other hassles that come along with it, its does get to you after awhile.......

When the Glitz and Glam wears off, you're left with the "TRUE/REAL" NYC and its not all about Partying it up and living the Sex and City life let me tell you.

But saying that if you can't live the downtown life in Pittsburgh then its not the same....You'll never hear anyone utter that statement..Even if Downtown Pittsburgh was a 24/7 replica of Manhattan, you would still never hear any Pittsburgh'er utter that statemnt.

You can live on the SSS for 400$ and be right in the middle of it all with a quick trip to the Flats.....NYC forget it, The cheapest RENT will be atleast a 90 minute A train ride to Manhattan.

Again we're comparing Pittsburgh to NY and its not fair to do that. Of course NY is going to offer more when it comes to Nightlife and Oppurtunities that can be said when comparing NY to any city outside of LA and Chicago.

Dont take this wrong way, but are you in NYC pittsteelerfan, because you have alot of that NY arrogance in your posts I noticed.

Again we know Pittsburgh is not NY, and being "Hip" depends on ones definition of "Hip"....... You say progressive and by progressive you mean Ultra Liberal (ie SF, Portland), No that not Pittsburgh by-far its not even NYC to an extent.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Again comparing Pittsburgh to NYC is NOT FAIR....Only cities that can make a fair comparison to NYC are LA, Chicago and maybe SF. I really wish people would stop this.

I myself included need to stop....






You're Right Philly is just a larger Pittsburgh more with more diverse but still largely Black and white. I lived there for 3 years before my job took me to NY..... Philly and Pittsburgh both have that same Blue Collard past...

To me the only worth exploring in Philly is Center City nabes of Philly just can't compare to Pittsburgh.




and how many cities are in the US, again not many cities can lay claim to this...If Pittsburgh had a Truely Vibrant D'town along with its nabes then it would truely be among the unique.



I will admit I am growing alittle tired of NYC....I still love its Pulse, but all the other hassles that come along with it, its does get to you after awhile.......

When the Glitz and Glam wears off, you're left with the "TRUE/REAL" NYC and its not all about Partying it up and living the Sex and City life let me tell you.

But saying that if you can't live the downtown life in Pittsburgh then its not the same....You'll never hear anyone utter that statement..Even if Downtown Pittsburgh was a 24/7 replica of Manhattan, you would still never hear any Pittsburgh'er utter that statemnt.

You can live on the SSS for 400$ and be right in the middle of it all with a quick trip to the Flats.....NYC forget it, The cheapest RENT will be atleast a 90 minute A train ride to Manhattan.

Again we're comparing Pittsburgh to NY and its not fair to do that. Of course NY is going to offer more when it comes to Nightlife and Oppurtunities that can be said when comparing NY to any city outside of LA and Chicago.

Dont take this wrong way, but are you in NYC pittsteelerfan, because you have alot of that NY arrogance in your posts I noticed.

Again we know Pittsburgh is not NY, and being "Hip" depends on ones definition of "Hip"....... You say progressive and by progressive you mean Ultra Liberal (ie SF, Portland), No that not Pittsburgh by-far its not even NYC to an extent.

I wasn't trying to compare Pittsburgh with NYC. I was ONLY responding to your previous statements.

It's funny how us ex-Pittsburgh'ers who lived in Philly before, feel it's just a bigger version of the Burgh. Go on the Philly forum and say that!.. They're try and rip your head off!... They NEVER see the comparison.


I know there's a lot of cities in America. But I really only talking about the major metro ones.

I'm living in NYC right now with my sister (who's been her since she graduated college). EVERY time my mom visits her, she says the same thing to my sister," Ain't you tired of living here?, You could have a beautiful home back in Pittsburgh for what you're paying here in NYC on rent". And my sister always responds the same way," Ya mom, the ONLY problem, that home would be in Pittsburgh"! My sister drank too much of the NYC 'Kool-Aid'. But I don't blame her. She's not married yet, and doesn't have any kids. She makes a nice living, and if she does settle down with a family, I'm sure her husband and her will be able to afford a home her in NYC.

Believe me, I know what the 'true' NYC life is like for the 'majority' of NY'ers. It's far from what the movies or tv shows protray. But not for the 'ones' who actually do make the 'real' money here. And that's why Pittsburgh is a lot more pratical than cities like NYC, LA, SF etc. The average person is lucky if they can survive in these cities, let alone have any kind of standard of living. Pittsburgh is perfect for the 'average Joe' types. Actually, it's hard to beat in that sense.

But America's economy has changed over the years. More people go to college and end up in white collar jobs than in previous years. And Pittsburgh's blue collar feel, isn't what a lot of the younger college grads are looking for. Take Chicago, "The City with Big Shoulders". Maybe years ago, not anymore. The nabes that are livable there, for the most part, it's yuppie CENTRAL. So a professional would feel more comfortable there, compared to the small pockets of Pittsburgh that have that look and feel.

Living on SS on $400 a month in Pittsburgh? Come on now, NOWHERE is that cheap. And again, I have to disagree with your NYC statements. 90 minute train ride? What are you talking about here? You can live in Astoria, Queens, which is what 10 minutes from Mannhattan? 1 bedroom for $1100 or $1200 a month. Don't forget now, a car is NOT NEEDED what-so-ever! So that money you'll save on car payments, gas, insurance, repairs, maintence, ALONE could save someone $600 a month. And come on now, even $600 a month to own a car is being pretty consevative when you INCLUDE all the expenses that goes into owning a car.

The going rate in Queens for a 1 bedroom is between $1100-1300 a month. When subract a car from that, Queens is not much higher than Pittsburgh in terms of rent.

It's not that I have a lot of NYC arrogance. The thing is, I've gone back to Pittsburgh quite a few times after living in other cities. I'm sorry, but me going back to visit was a lot different than moving back there. After the day-to-day grind started to take hold back in the Burgh, I regretted moving back there, EVERY time I did it.

Maybe you'll be different. The things you hate now about NYC, may be the things you MISS the MOST about it.

I know that life exist west of the Hudson (unlike many NY'ers). But a lot of that life is kinda boring and sometimes downright depressing.

I wish I knew how to multi-post like you did with my comments. So that I can respond the way you did. Can someone please tell me how to do this. I would like to be able to respond to each of someones comment one at a time.

[Katiana]

In re: to this neighborhood issue, I will tell you that much maligned Denver (Sprawlorado?) has a good neighborhood system as well. My point being that that may not be the selling point some people in Pgh think it is. pittsteelerfan pointed out a few other cities, all over the country, that are neighborhood oriented. Just sayin'.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Katiana

In re: to this neighborhood issue, I will tell you that much maligned Denver (Sprawlorado?) has a good neighborhood system as well. My point being that that may not be the selling point some people in Pgh think it is. pittsteelerfan pointed out a few other cities, all over the country, that are neighborhood oriented. Just sayin'.

No I think it is a selling point. As long as those "neighborhoods" and the surrounding 'ones' are nice also. Take Friendship, it borders Garfield and Bloomfield. Now Bloomfield is a nice nabe, but the houses are eye sores. And Garfield, besides the eye sores, you have the crime. I personally would never buy a house in Friendship, then on top of that, dump all that money into it refurbish it. Not saying the homes ain't worth it. Friendship is just way too small. It doesn't really have a buffer zone like a bigger nabe would. Like Morningside, look how much bigger the buffer zone can be, depending on what end you live on.

But ya, most, if not all, the older cities were built around neighborhoods. Pittsburgh is not unique it this sense. With the exception of the hills, rivers, and bridges that seperates them.

[Kate88]

In regards to Pittsburgh's "hipness," - Pitt is really trying to make it into a "hip" destination for grad students with this website, Cool Pittsburgh:

Cool Pittsburgh - Come to Learn, Come to Live

[steindle]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Living on SS on $400 a month in Pittsburgh? Come on now, NOWHERE is that cheap.

Not true. I have several friends on the South Side who pay as little as $300. And I'm not talking about the Slopes either -- I mean two or three blocks from Carson. You just need to know where to look!

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

But ya, most, if not all, the older cities were built around neighborhoods. Pittsburgh is not unique it this sense. With the exception of the hills, rivers, and bridges that seperates them.

Even in that regard, Pittsburgh has something in common with many cities. In Denver, the east side is separated from the west side by the South Platte River, and the "Valley Highway", I-25, that goes through the river valley. The west side is higher in elevation, and hillier. Major thoroughfares separate one neighborhood from another in many cities.

[Awesomo.2000]

Originally Posted by Katiana

In re: to this neighborhood issue, I will tell you that much maligned Denver (Sprawlorado?) has a good neighborhood system as well. My point being that that may not be the selling point some people in Pgh think it is. pittsteelerfan pointed out a few other cities, all over the country, that are neighborhood oriented. Just sayin'.

I still disagree with this. As a person who lived in two different city neighborhoods in Denver, there is no where close to a difference upon neighborhoods in Denver as there is in Pittsburgh. I am not saying Denver doesn't have nice neighborhoods. I am just talking about the sheer uniqueness between neighborhoods. You can live in Pittsburgh and never leave your neighborhood. Denver is more concentrated around it's downtown. Yeah there is a difference between Five Points and Capitol Hill, but not like there is one between Squirrel Hill, and the South Side.

Denver changes slowly over the grid into different neighborhoods. In Pittsburgh you cross Fifth Ave, Negley, or Baum and it looks completly different very fast.

I hope this makes sense.

[Katiana]

It makes sense, but I will show you a different side to it. I lived in Sloan's Lake in Denver, on the far west side. We rarely went downtown. When we needed to shop for clothes, we went to the malls in the western suburbs. For everything else, it was available in our little 'hood. We did however, go to the Edgewater Inn, in guess where, Edgewater, (Jefferson County) for pizza and beer. (We were younger then, LOL!)

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by steindle

Not true. I have several friends on the South Side who pay as little as $300. And I'm not talking about the Slopes either -- I mean two or three blocks from Carson. You just need to know where to look!

So after they pay their $300 for rent (which I'd love to see what that $300 a month apt 'actually' looks like), they could live on $100 a month?.......... Impossible!