Pittsburgh Misconceptions (Robinson Township, Jacksonville, Oakland: home, rent, work)

[Katiana]

Races in Pittsburgh:

White Non-Hispanic (66.9%)
Black (27.1%)
Two or more races (1.6%)
Hispanic (1.3%)
Chinese (0.9%)
Other race (0.7%)
American Indian (0.7%)
Asian Indian (0.6%)
5.6% Foreign born (2.4% Asia, 2.2% Europe, 0.6% Latin America).

These are the city statistics, from city-data. I think they speak for themselves. There may be a neighborhood or two where there are a lot of immigrants, non-black/whites, etc, but there can't be very many with 94% of the city being either black or white, and approximately the same proportion being US born (78.1% in Pennsylvania).

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by claremarie

Hopes, my mom grew up in Lawrenceville. Within walking distance of her house were three Catholic Churches -- the Polish church, the German church, and the Irish church. I'm quite familiar with the ethnic culture in Pittsburgh. I spent a lot of time there. And there's no need even to look at the Census figures to know that Pittsburgh is not particularly ethnically diverse...when the dry cleaners, landscapers, convenience store clerks, McDonald's cashiers, parking lot attendants, gas station attendants, and airport employees are virtually all white (with a few blacks) , you know that Pittsburgh's Asian/Hispanic/Indian/African population is virtually nil.

While you are technically correct in using the traditional definition of diversity which is a racial diversity (not racial bad, if you get my drift); I think what other people are saying is there is a different diversity that isn't racial.

I get what everyone is saying. Here in Oakland Ca, I have both racial diversity and a diverse section of people. To be honest, in my opinion, diversity of racial terms is a dull and old fashioned way to look at things, designed more to separate than to bring together.

It's more important to have diversity in my daily life. Like, my physician is Jewish, my massage therapist is Pagan, my herbalist was a lesbian Wiccan, and she can get me to a Voodoo practitioner, if I need one.

I'm married to an agnostic, are friends with atheists, and my acquaintances are born again Christians and someone who's in this odd Christian sect that says that Jesus was from outer space, and when he comes back, we'll all go with him on his space ship; lesbians and gays, and my psychic connection is an Indian.

The fact they are White and Black and Asian and Indian (sorry, PC police -- she prefers to be called Indian and not Native American) doesn't matter to me at all.

And boy, until I read this, I hadn't realized that writing had opened my life to all this. I really have to get back into that.

[subdivisions]

I still don't get why blacks are being excluded from the definition of "diversity". Frankly, it seems a little forced. I can't help wondering if Pittsburgh had 30% Native Americans, or 30% Hispanics whether some people here would be discounting that in order to try to make a point. My guess would be yes. I can even imagine how the argument would go..

"Well, a lot of cities are experiencing an upswing in immigration from Latin America. Since every city has a lot of Hispanics now, Pittsburgh's high Hispanic population doesn't really count as diversity."

Tell me I'm wrong. (And explain why we are defining diversity to exclude black people.)

[claremarie]

While you are technically correct in using the traditional definition of diversity which is a racial diversity (not racial bad, if you get my drift); I think what other people are saying is there is a different diversity that isn't racial.

Sure there is. But given that 90% of the Pittsburgh MSA population is white, and more than 80% of the population was born in the state, the word "diversity" can only be used in connection with Pittsburgh if preceded by the words "lack of." There is a certain, inescapable sameness about the people in Pittsburgh that is glaringly obvious to visitors from elsewhere who walk around downtown or shop at one of the large local malls.

That is one of Pittsburgh's biggest problems -- the insular, parochial population with few newcomers from other countries, or even other states, to introduce new ideas from their diverse life experiences.

[claremarie]

That's not an accurate description of the way it is here anymore. It's actually the other way around now in many city neighborhoods. Of course, the suburbs are an entirely different story, but almost every city has a larger white population in the suburbs.

It's pretty darn close. Even my kids noticed that everyone working in McDonald's and Starbucks in the North Hills was white. If you've always lived in Pittsburgh, and don't travel much to larger, more diverse cities, you just don't notice the whiteness.

When I rode the bus in to work this morning, only about half the people riding with me were white. The rest were a mix of black, Asian, Middle-Eastern and Indian. I guess those were all of the minorities in the whole city, right? They all just got on the same exact bus as me.

Notwitstanding the demographics of your particular bus route, the statistics show that Pittsburgh's Asian/Hispanic/Indian/Middle Eastern population is less than 4%.

[JoeP]

The horse is dead.
Has been for quite some time.

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by claremarie

Sure there is. But given that 90% of the Pittsburgh MSA population is white, and more than 80% of the population was born in the state, the word "diversity" can only be used in connection with Pittsburgh if preceded by the words "lack of." There is a certain, inescapable sameness about the people in Pittsburgh that is glaringly obvious to visitors from elsewhere who walk around downtown or shop at one of the large local malls.

First of all, we haven't all agreed to use the MSA stats here. We never use those kinds of figures when we have other conversations on other topics, so why start now? I realize that it happens to be convenient for your argument right now, but it isn't really fair given the other criticisms of Pittsburgh on this board (population most notably, because if you add in MSA, the population of Pittsburgh rises to almost 3 million, a figure the Pittsburgh detractors really don't like to talk about).

Also, I don't live in the suburbs, and that's on purpose. I fully agree that the suburbs are vanilla, boring, and non-diverse. That's no point of contention for me. My experiences in Pittsburgh do not involve the suburbs on a daily basis, and clearly that's the case for other posters here too. So let's talk about the city.

The city is 27% black. Why does this not count as diversity? That's quite a bit higher than the U.S. average of ~12% African-American nationwide. I live in a neighborhood that is 65% African-American, and I assure you that it is far from "inescapably same". Trust me, there is not much about my neighborhood or its population that reminds me in any way whatsoever of any of the white-bread, vanilla places I've lived before. When I lived in Squirrel Hill, it was never that way either.

And I was once a visitor from elsewhere, before I moved here. Something I remember clearly from my time visiting here, were all the different kinds of people on the street. No doubt that had something to do with the neighborhoods I was in when I visited (I didn't visit any suburban malls, for one thing), but certainly I was not struck by the sameness. Actually, I was struck by the diversity. So clearly, the non-diversity of Pittsburgh is not actually glaringly obvious to any visitor.

[Gerbil]

Statistics can be quite misleading, and this is one of those cases. Like I said, I have lived in several neighborhoods. Not to mention that I have spent lots of time in several more that I never lived in. And I have seen a lot of different kinds of people around me. You. Can. Experience. Diversity. Here.

The statistics probably leave out a lot of the students, too. They aren't citizens of the city, so they may not be counted. But they are here, and they add to the diversity of the city.

Furthermore, the more diverse neighborhoods are the ones people spend more time in. I'm willing to bet that the areas which are mainly residential are dragging the diversity statistics down. But how many people go to Stanton Heights if they don't live there? The places people go to work and play are the very places where I see diversity. That's more important if you ask me.

What we see around us is more important than the statistics in a case like this. I guess if you are coming from a place like DC it may seem like we lack diversity. But it's here, and you don't need to look hard to find it.

I've said all I have to say. I'm done with this thread now.

[Katiana]

From the census bureau via Wikipedia: re: Pittsburgh -

According to the 2000 census there were 334,563 individuals, 143,739 households, and 74,169 families within the city limits. The population of the surrounding metropolitan area was 2,358,695.

This number has been posted before.

JoeP is right. The horse is dead. No one wants to believe the numbers. Statistics aren't everything, but they are a start. They are certainly better than anecdotal evidence about "my bus route", etc. And I guess I feel MSA statistics are important because only about 1 in 8 people in the Pgh area live in the city. The vast, vast majority live in these white vanilla suburbs. I was shocked to see the racial statistics for Blackhawk High School, which is now the school where people in my old neighborhood go. To wit:

Asian: 1%
Black: 1%
Hispanic: 0%
Native American: 0%
White/Other: 98%

Public Schools & Private Schools Information

Regarding students not being counted, sorry, that's not true.

From:
http://www.census.gov/population/www....html#Students (broken link)

College students living away from home while attending college - Counted where they are living at college.

[Gerbil]

My point is who cares about the suburbs? The whole point I have been trying to make is that the city has diversity where it counts most, the neighborhoods where most people go to work and spend time. I really don't give crap if Fox Chapel or whatever is mostly white. The city's two main centers, Downtown and Oakland, are much more diverse than that. As are the neighborhoods where most people go to have fun. So even if those statistics do count students, they are still misleading.

If you tell someone that Pittsburgh is 90% white, and then they come here and go walk around Oakland or the South Side or the Strip, they'll be pretty damn surprised. Statistics can be true but also misleading. I'm not saying my experience on the bus disproves the statistics, just that it shows how misleading they can be.


Blah, I said I was done with this thread but here I go replying anyway.