Pittsburgh Misconceptions (move, design, suburbs)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by claremarie

Maybe they are a Chinese family interested in living in an area with enough other Chinese families so that their children can enroll in weekend "Chinese school" classes. Maybe they are orthodox Jews who want to live within walking distance of a synagogue in the suburbs rather than the city. Maybe they are a family from Bolivia who wants to make sure that there are Spanish-language Masses in convenient locations. Maybe they are a Muslim family who doesn't want their children to be the only ones at their school who are fasting during Ramadan. Maybe they are a Vietnamese family who wants easy access to small shops selling Asian produce.

That's not diversity, that's segregated! If that's what you call diversity, Pittsburgh has it! There are many neighborhoods with concentrations of race, ethnic groups and religious groups throughout Pittsburgh. Want a Mass in a different language? Pittsburgh's Catholic diocese has a church somewhere that offers it! You can get a Polish mass in Sharpsburgh and an Italian Mass in Morningside! Pittsburgh is full of ethnic neighborhoods. Just because we don't currently have a large population of hispanics does not mean that Pittsburgh is not diversified. When we do get a large population of hispanics, I guarantee you there will be a church offering a Mass in Spanish.

My point was that you can't assume what someone means when they're asking for 'diversity' clairmarie. Perhaps you should ask for specifics prior to responding to someone's inquiry so you don't accidently give the inaccurate impression that Pittsburgh has racial problems. I don't believe for a minute that you want people to think that Pittsburgh has racial problems. I would think you would be glad to learn how you're coming across.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by claremarie

I think I read somewhere that if Pittsburgh included Allegheny County in it's population assessments, we'd be the 9th largest city in the U.S.

Provided that no other city on the list also included its outlying suburbs....otherwise, you're just giving every metro area a population boost by including its MSA numbers...

That's true. Then NYC's population would be including multiple states---even northeastern Pennsylvania as part of it's population! LOL

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by claremarie

I think I read somewhere that if Pittsburgh included Allegheny County in it's population assessments, we'd be the 9th largest city in the U.S.

Provided that no other city on the list also included its outlying suburbs....otherwise, you're just giving every metro area a population boost by including its MSA numbers...

Actually, the reason I brought that up is because some of the largest cities in the U.S. have done that. Somebody a while back on this forum posted something about it - they are high in the rankings for population because they annexed their MSA and are calling it part of their city. I don't have the inclination to look it up right now. In a way, comparing Pittsburgh to cities like that is like comparing apples to oranges, unless you use MSA stats for Pittsburgh...for everything, not just the topics you find convenient to use those types of numbers for.

Anyway, I think Pittsburgh is 30% African-American. That's what the stats say, that's who rides my bus, that's who I see all the time in my daily life, along with lots of other people, and that's my daily experience. I don't even like the suburbs, so ********** MSA nitpicking. If you want to live out there in BFE Pleasantville, more power to you. But then don't complain that it IS Pleasantville and try to include the rest of us in that designation. Because we live and play in the city for a reason. The suburbs aren't MY Pittsburgh, they're yours. Quit trying to foist them on me.

Or, to put it another way, if you want to believe that Pittsburgh is 95% White or whatever, fine. But the rest of us city dwellers don't buy it. My city is 30% African-American. Sorry yours isn't. Maybe you should move if it bothers you that much.

[claremarie]

That's not diversity, that's segregated! If that's what you call diversity, Pittsburgh has it! There are many neighborhoods with concentrations of race, ethnic groups and religious groups throughout Pittsburgh.

Really? I know that Squirrel Hill is Jewish, and there are many predominantly black neighborhoods, but where are the others? The Hispanic neighborhoods? The Korean neighborhoods? The Vietnamese neighborhoods? The Indian neighborhoods? The Muslim neighborhoods?
The answer is that there are not enough of any of these groups to form a neighborhood. There are barely enough of them to show up on the Census report.
If you're tired of beating this dead horse, then stop replying. But I find the insistence that a metro area with a white population of more than 90% is "diverse" truly astounding.

[JoeP]

Let it go.

[Hopes]

It's like trying to teach an old dog new tricks!

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by claremarie

If you're tired of beating this dead horse, then stop replying. But I find the insistence that a metro area with a white population of more than 90% is "diverse" truly astounding.

According to City-Data.com:

Races in Pittsburgh:

White Non-Hispanic (66.9%)
Black (27.1%)
Two or more races (1.6%)
Hispanic (1.3%)
Chinese (0.9%)
Other race (0.7%)
American Indian (0.7%)
Asian Indian (0.6%)

Pittsburgh is only approximately 67% white. Seems reasonably diverse to me, at least if we are defining diversity racially. Frankly, I think the most ridiculous thing about this whole conversation is that we never even agreed on a common definition of "diversity" before jumping into deeper waters.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Let it go.

Hopes It's like trying to teach an old dog new tricks!

If you guys don't want to discuss this issue, let the rest of us discuss it as we wish. Here are some stats from a city that many think is "white bread":

Races in Minneapolis:

White Non-Hispanic (62.5%)
Black (18.0%)
Hispanic (7.6%)
Two or more races (4.4%)
Other race (4.1%)
Other Asian (3.6%)
American Indian (3.3%)
Chinese (0.6%)
Vietnamese (0.6%)
(from city-data)

Pittsburgh is simply not all that diverse compared to many. Though I do agree with this post by subdivisions:

Frankly, I think the most ridiculous thing about this whole conversation is that we never even agreed on a common definition of "diversity" before jumping into deeper waters.

It seems like this thread just grew like topsy, with some insisitng that Pittsburgh, a city with virtually no Hispanic population, and a tiny Asian/Indian population centered mainly around the universities is "diverse". Others rightly point out that both the city, and to an even greater extent the suburbs, are extremely non-diverse.

[Katiana]

Actually, the reason I brought that up is because some of the largest cities in the U.S. have done that. Somebody a while back on this forum posted something about it - they are high in the rankings for population because they annexed their MSA and are calling it part of their city.

Yes, someone did post this. And they offered a link to an opinon piece to "prove" it. But as much as the Pittsburgh bloggers like to think that Pittsburgh is getting a bum rap, it's simply not true. Not every city other than Pittsburgh is gobbling up land to increase its population. An amendment to the Colorado constitution made it very difficult for Denver to annex any more land, and its borders have been stable since the late 1970s. Cities in Virginia are not part of any county. If Denver could annex the rest of Denver County, its population would be . . . the same. Denver is a city/county. Chicago appears to be the same geographic size as it was when I first went there in 1971. Some cities, yes, have been annexing land around them. Omaha just annexed a whole town named Elkhorn (don't we have cool names out west?). But guess what folks? Pittsburgh did the same thing. It just did it in a different era, so "that's different" meaning, that's OK, I guess. Both the north and south sides used to be independent cities/towns. Omaha, et all aren't doing anything that hasn't been done before.

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

It seems like this thread just grew like topsy, with some insisitng that Pittsburgh, a city with virtually no Hispanic population, and a tiny Asian/Indian population centered mainly around the universities is "diverse". Others rightly point out that both the city, and to an even greater extent the suburbs, are extremely non-diverse.

Sorry, but 67% White is not "extremely non-diverse". And we never defined diversity as "having a huge Hispanic population" or "having a huge Asian/Indian population".