Pittsburgh Misconceptions (Shenandoah, Portland: coop, place to live, zoning)

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by goodgirl49

Yes it does, and the same officials seem to get elected over and over again, usually because they're democrats and have the union mentality. Until the area gets past this attitude, I really don't see things improving economically. It would really require the mass efforts of many people to work for change, and many are just apathetic or vote with their feet.

Once again -- you're not talking about anything that is strictly Democratic and/or Pittsburgh. Pretty much, the voters see the problem as being every one else's elected officials suck -- *my* incumbent is fine. In off presidential years, incumbents win hands down almost all the time.

I'll do my best to dig up some facts and figures, but real life is beckoning...

[xxxtobymac]

the thing with Pittsburgh, is when you come in to Pittsburgh, either by being a visitor or moving here. once you drive into Pittsburgh and see the skyline if you don't love that, then you are not meant to be here. I've been to Miami, new York, Chicago, Los angles, Portland, Seattle, Denver, Huston, Dallas, new Orleans, philly,Cleavland, cinnci, and Indianapolis and of course Pittsburgh, granted I've loved the steelers, pirates, and pens since i was 5..but when i actually came to Pittsburgh to go to college, when i drove through the ft.Pitt, tunnel and came out on the ft.pitt bridge, i had just died and went to heaven, no other city has that. granted there's more to moving to a city than just a skyline, like real state, taxes, crime, schools, employment...which for Pittsburgh, is still not as high as those other cities..so .. all in all i love pburgh, and i'm moving back in January yea

[kpoeppel]

I do love many things about Pittsburgh. I just wish the economy were better so that the many other people who love Pittsburgh could move here. In my opinion, that's it's only major downside. Yeah, the climate could be warmer, but lots of places are cold and cloudy in winter.

[tarnas]

if this no-work ethic is institutionalized in pittsburgh and in pennsylvania, and the taxes are so high, and yet there is no substantial minority or majority fighting it (or is there?), wouldn't this mean that the majority of people either directly or indirectly benefit and live off of this system? or are people just not aware that they could make their lives better by bucking the system?

not saying i'm for this -- it'd be nice to have a dynamic economic order of people who are very productive and enjoy work -- but this state of affairs of having one or two major benefactors (the state via taxes and a big local company or school or industry) exists throughout the country and the world. does pittsburgh really stand out?

as far as i can tell pittsburgh has diversified economically much more than its brethren -- metro detroit, cleveland, buffalo, st louis -- during the past two decades, and has been blessed by a restrictive geography that's kept sprawl under control (relative to detroit, st. louis, etc) and therefore hasn't stretched the infrastructure (cost of maintenance) beyond reason (lots of comparisons to portland oregon could be made here). besides the gov't and schools there are several durable employment sectors. maybe all this despite the prevailing no-work ethic?

or perhaps the "institutionalized" rigidity has helped create a durable long-term economic order.

[Katiana]

OK, I said I'd stay out of this, but I've always loved a challenge. I'm confused by your comparison to Portland, tarnas. (I assume you mean Portland, Oregon.) Both have similar size metro areas, but Portland city has 1 1/2 times the population of Pittsburgh. In other words, fewer suburban residents. Pittsburgh actually has a big suburban area, with a city:suburban ration of 1:7 (approx). That is higher than a lot of western cities.

wouldn't this mean that the majority of people either directly or indirectly benefit and live off of this system

Yes, and it is true. There is a large elderly population there that lives on social security and pensions.

[kpoeppel]

Originally Posted by tarnas

if this no-work ethic is institutionalized in pittsburgh and in pennsylvania, and the taxes are so high, and yet there is no substantial minority or majority fighting it (or is there?), wouldn't this mean that the majority of people either directly or indirectly benefit and live off of this system? or are people just not aware that they could make their lives better by bucking the system?

not saying i'm for this -- it'd be nice to have a dynamic economic order of people who are very productive and enjoy work -- but this state of affairs of having one or two major benefactors (the state via taxes and a big local company or school or industry) exists throughout the country and the world. does pittsburgh really stand out?

as far as i can tell pittsburgh has diversified economically much more than its brethren -- metro detroit, cleveland, buffalo, st louis -- during the past two decades, and has been blessed by a restrictive geography that's kept sprawl under control (relative to detroit, st. louis, etc) and therefore hasn't stretched the infrastructure (cost of maintenance) beyond reason (lots of comparisons to portland oregon could be made here). besides the gov't and schools there are several durable employment sectors. maybe all this despite the prevailing no-work ethic?

or perhaps the "institutionalized" rigidity has helped create a durable long-term economic order.

Yeah, the only problem being the following: "when everyone is a thief, from whom do they steal?"

What happens when the people who pay for this state of affairs, but do not benefit from it, get fed up and "vote with their feet" and leave? Taxes keep going up, to make up for population loss, which results in even more people leaving. It's a vicious cycle. Ever played the "SimCity" computer game? It simulates the phenomenon quite well.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by kpoeppel

I do love many things about Pittsburgh. I just wish the economy were better so that the many other people who love Pittsburgh could move here. In my opinion, that's it's only major downside. Yeah, the climate could be warmer, but lots of places are cold and cloudy in winter.

I just wish there was more of a police presence in downtown. Free or MUCH cheaper parking is another biggie. I really hate having to pay 8 bucks to "window shop."

I would love to see more of a concentration of new building in one area to establish a good side of town so it can expand faster. Being scattered about makes it difficult to keep anything up to date. Knocking down the slumlord properties and rebuilding is IMO the fastest, cheapest and fairest way to keep the city clean and beautiful. I would even go so far as to award the property to the "renter" after a said amount of time.... (another thread perhaps).

Also - I'd assign every neighborhood into an HOA (Homeowners Association) so they can police themselves in the care of their surroundings. HOA's can be restrictive, but they don't have to be. I know this because I've been involved in ours for several years.

I wish it were a bit cleaner. People - mattresses and toilets do NOT belong on the front lawn!!!!!

And my last and final complaint- what is up with NO access to the rivers? No docks, no nothing. No place to fish from. Three beautiful rivers and no one can get to them to use them. THAT is wasteful.

I'd like to see Pittsburgh continue to grow because I have no plans of moving away once I am living there permanently in July 08. It does have a chance, but damn people, get more Republicans in office to get rid of all that government waste. It would be satisfying to have ONE rustbelt city prove to the rest of the nation that it doesn't "have" to be 90 and sunny in order to have people choose to live there.

[Shenandoah]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

It does have a chance, but damn people, get more Republicans in office to get rid of all that government waste. It would be satisfying to have ONE rustbelt city prove to the rest of the nation that it doesn't "have" to be 90 and sunny in order to have people choose to live there.

We try! But the sheeple just keep voting the Demo's back in!

blessings, Shen

[kpoeppel]

The sheeple don't have a basic understanding of economics. The last thing the teachers' unions want is people learning that wages are determined by supply and demand. So public school teachers certainly don't want people to learn economics, it's against their own interests. And so every generation learnes that unions and strikes are the route to prosperity, instead of personal ambition. And so the sheeple vote for the Democrats, the party of "labor", which sides with teachers unions. And so the cycle repeats, with generation after generation having no more ambition than to live off the government. Or to have their uncle get them into that high-paying state job where they do nothing but read the newspaper.

Naturally companies don't want employees with this mentality, not to mention the high taxes to support the unionized public sector, so they don't locate here. They won't even stay in the state without "economic development" spending, a.k.a. "bribes" funded by tax dollars.

Unfortunately, it's much easier to "vote with your feet" than to take on this huge cultural/social/political/economic mess. And so many people move away. Since steel collapsed there's been a sort of "sociological filter" effect happening: the people with ambition leave for greener pastures, those remaining are the ones waiting for Someone Else (the government, the Democrats, the AFL-CIO, etc) to make their lives better. And so the region becomes even more heavily Democrat controlled, and even less likely to change.

I'm thinking of joining the heard and moving to some place that has an economy beyond pumping gas, fast food, and open-heart surgery. But part of me wants things to be better and try to change things. But is it even possible? It breaks my heart to see family move away and to see my home state go downhill.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

I just wish there was more of a police presence in downtown. Free or MUCH cheaper parking is another biggie. I really hate having to pay 8 bucks to "window shop."

I would love to see more of a concentration of new building in one area to establish a good side of town so it can expand faster. Being scattered about makes it difficult to keep anything up to date. Knocking down the slumlord properties and rebuilding is IMO the fastest, cheapest and fairest way to keep the city clean and beautiful. I would even go so far as to award the property to the "renter" after a said amount of time.... (another thread perhaps).

Also - I'd assign every neighborhood into an HOA (Homeowners Association) so they can police themselves in the care of their surroundings. HOA's can be restrictive, but they don't have to be. I know this because I've been involved in ours for several years.

I wish it were a bit cleaner. People - mattresses and toilets do NOT belong on the front lawn!!!!!

And my last and final complaint- what is up with NO access to the rivers? No docks, no nothing. No place to fish from. Three beautiful rivers and no one can get to them to use them. THAT is wasteful.

I'd like to see Pittsburgh continue to grow because I have no plans of moving away once I am living there permanently in July 08. It does have a chance, but damn people, get more Republicans in office to get rid of all that government waste. It would be satisfying to have ONE rustbelt city prove to the rest of the nation that it doesn't "have" to be 90 and sunny in order to have people choose to live there.

Anderson Township Zoning Protest Toilet Protest

I saw this a while again and had to share....