Challenge (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Lancaster: house, job market, transfer)

[Katiana]

Would everyone who waxes rhapsodic over Pittsburgh with all sorts of superlatives please list the cities they are comparing it with that they have lived in/visited in the last five years? Also state your basis for comparison.

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Would everyone who waxes rhapsodic over Pittsburgh with all sorts of superlatives please list the cities they are comparing it with that they have lived in/visited in the last five years? Also state your basis for comparison.

In the last five years, I've lived in Flagstaff, Arizona and Colorado Springs, Co. In my life, I have also lived in North Carolina, California, and New Mexico, as well as another city in Colorado. I travel a lot for business and pleasure, and in the last five years, I have visited so many places I don't think I can name them all, from Lexington, KY to upstate NY, Dallas, to Las Vegas and many others. I have also traveled extensively overseas. In short, I do not fit the stereotype you seem to have of Pittsburghers - the provincial people who have never set foot outside their city.

As I've stated before, I LOATHED Colorado Springs with every fiber of my being, and would be happiest if I never had to set foot in the place ever again. That pretty much goes for the entire front range of the Rockies, including Denver, a city I found to be riddled with urban sprawl and unattractive other than the pretty mountains to the west. I don't think I need to go on about that any more than I already have - if you want more of my viewpoint on Colorado Springs and Colorado in general you can look up some of my previous posts.

I liked Flagstaff, but it was over-priced and literally IMPOSSIBLE to find a job that paid more than $8 an hour there or that wasn't at a convenience store. People who complain about the employment situation here should try living there for a while - try a median home price of $300K and no employment prospects. It's not a good situation. Also, I am happier with the weather here in Pittsburgh because I like rain, and I like deciduous trees. Flagstaff was lovely, however, and small towns can be nice. I miss being able to go to Sedona.

I haven't lived in California in many years, but I have a good friend who lives in Los Angeles. Her commute is 2 hours one way, she has literally no hope of ever being able to afford to buy a house in a good neighborhood even though she and her husband make 6 figures combined, and the entire place is being overrun with illegal immigrants. Other than that, she says it's peachy! My personal experience with Los Angeles (and Phoenix too, actually) was that it was filled with a lot of overly image and status conscious people.

I traveled a lot in Texas a year or two ago. Not a place I would ever live. Rednecks galore, bad weather, arrogance, not my scene. You complain about provincial Pittsburgh, but it has nothing on the mid-size town I lived in North Carolina. I knew a guy there with a bachelor's degree who had never been twenty miles outside of the town limits. Seriously. And when I lived there, I had a guy ask me once where I was from, and when I told him "Arizona", he asked me if that was a foreign country. Now THAT'S provincial. Chicago seemed alright, but didn't have the cool character that Pittsburgh does.

Where do I like besides Pittsburgh? Las Vegas was terrific. I would definitely consider moving there if I ever get tired of it here. If I were independently wealthy, I might consider moving to Sedona, Arizona. Maybe Vermont? I've never been there, though, so I don't know for sure if I would like it. I feel comfortable with the East Coast mentality, so maybe a smaller town in New England somewhere, or Philadelphia.

Anyway...I've been lots of places, and I like it here. Sorry you don't feel the same way, but your inability to be happy here doesn't make the rest of us naive idiots.

[guylocke]

I've spent plenty of time in the cities of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, DC, Baltimore, Toronto, Chicago, NYC, and Philadelphia. I've also been all over Florida, especially Tampa, Clearwater, St. Petersburg, Naples, Miami, and Vero. I've seen a lot of both Carolina’s, too. I have been to Atlanta once. I've also been to London, Edinburgh, Manchester, Liverpool, and all over Britain more than once.

A lot of the cities I really liked, especially Toronto. And I like to visit many of them for leisure. Some places I am not a native so i'm not sure it's fair of me to compare Pittsburgh to things that I don't fully know. I'm not sure I have to legitimize my liking of Pittsburgh at all, in fact.

I do know I hate Florida. The god awful humid heat wilts me and makes me tired and miserable all the time. The Carolina's are bug infested.. I've seen dragonflies the size of birds of prey, not fun. LOL. But they have some nice weather! I've never been to a city as clean and charming as Pittsburgh, but again, I hardly find it fair to compare Pittsburgh to US flagship cities like Chicago and NYC.

In terms of cities similar to it, I am not impressed with Detroit, Cincinnati, Cleveland, or Baltimore. I find them often dirty and I think Pittsburgh is far more culturally robust in terms of theatre etc. I think we have some really amazing eclectic places; the Southside and Strip are extremely unique. I think Pittsburgh has a lot going for it, things I haven't found in similar sister cities. I'm sure all those cities have great aspects, but even a lot of them have a declining population. Most, in fact. And Pittsburghs population decline isn't alarming anymore, we lost a lot smaller percentage than many northern cities. A declining population isn't even necessarily a BAD thing, especially at the rate we are at. It softens the job market and eventually it will stabilize and we might bob a few years between a little growth or loss. Pittsburgh wouldn't be as clean and safe as it is if it had as many people and harmful industry as say, the smoke infested hell hole times of a few decades ago. Yeah, those

Toronto IS great

Oh next week i'm going to Seattle and in November Sydney Australia. I'll get back to you.

[Katiana]

subdivisions;509517] knew a guy there with a bachelor's degree who had never been twenty miles outside of the town limits. Seriously. And when I lived there, I had a guy ask me once where I was from, and when I told him "Arizona", he asked me if that was a foreign country. Now THAT'S provincial. Chicago seemed alright, but didn't have the cool character that Pittsburgh does.

Ther are plenty of people in Pittsburgh who have never been far outside of Pittsburgh, though I got trashed on this forum for saying so. My DH is from Omaha, Nebraska. When we mentioned Omaha one time to my cousin from Pittsburgh, he thought Omaha was a state! And he is a CMU graduate with a moster's from Rice University in Texas.

If I were independently wealthy, I might consider moving to Sedona, Arizona. Maybe Vermont? I've never been there, though, so I don't know for sure if I would like it. I feel comfortable with the East Coast mentality, so maybe a smaller town in New England somewhere, or Philadelphia.

That is why I said people should have been there in the last five years. Too many people post on this forum talk about places they have never been like they're the greatest place on earth.

Anyway...I've been lots of places, and I like it here. Sorry you don't feel the same way, but your inability to be happy here doesn't make the rest of us naive idiots.

I didn't say anything anyone being a naive idiot. My "inability" to be happy there had to do with getting married and moving away! I don't appreciate the amateur psychology.

What I meant was stuff like this from boylocke:

Our city is constantly ranked among the most family-friendly and affordable cities in the country and our skyline is always ranked among the most beautiful.

We are one of the last "neighborhood" cities left with a clear distinction of rich culture and ethnic flare in every city and neighborhood.

without documentation. These rankings are a crock, and every city I have been to in the last five years, including Denver, Minneapols, and Omaha, Nebraska have strong neighborhoods. Maybe someone who gets out a little more, as clairemarie said, would know that.

[guylocke]

LOL. You look up the facts, be my guest. This is a PITTSBURGH forum for friendly PITTSBURGHERS, im not gonna fact find and hunt to justify something to my own people.

And have YOU travel'ed up and down Great Britain more than once? Or Florida? Have YOU been to Sydney Australia? Have you been to Toronto or all those places I've mentioned.

We all have our own experiences and trust me, I LOVE to travel and have seen A LOT. I'm not sure where you're getting this "living in the pittsburgh box" thing.

I surely don't. Like I said, next week I'm heading to Seattle for nothing more than I feel like it.

[Katiana]

boylocke;509691]LOL. You look up the facts, be my guest.

Well, what do I google? "Everybody wants to be involved in the Pennsylvania/Pittsburgh education scene"? You need to be able to back up your claims.

This is a PITTSBURGH forum for friendly PITTSBURGHERS, im not gonna fact find and hunt to justify something to my own people.

I didn't see anything like that in the rules. It is a forum for exchange of ideas.

And have YOU travel'ed up and down Great Britain more than once?

No

Or Florida?

Yes, many times.

Have YOU been to Sydney Australia?

No

Have you been to Toronto or all those places I've mentioned.

Toronto, yes.

Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, DC, Baltimore, Toronto, Chicago, NYC, and Philadelphia.

Yes, though just the airport in Cincy.

Lived in Champaign, IL for 7 yrs. Lived in Maryland while in college. Lived in both Ithaca and Albany, NY. Also lived in Lancaster, CA and visited all the southern Cali coastal cities. Lived in Wilmington, DE. I have been to every state except Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, N. Dakota, Oklahoma and Nevada. Have been to Hawaii twice. Have been to Seattle, Portland, Boise, Great Falls, Rapid City, virtually every large city in Iowa, Ill. Indiana and Ohio.

We all have our own experiences and trust me, I LOVE to travel and have seen A LOT. I'm not sure where you're getting this "living in the pittsburgh box" thing.

I don't think I said that.

I surely don't. Like I said, next week I'm heading to Seattle for nothing more than I feel like it.

Hope you like it and enjoy your trip.

[Tallysmom]

Would everyone who waxes rhapsodic over Pittsburgh with all sorts of superlatives please list the cities they are comparing it with that they have lived in/visited in the last five years? Also state your basis for comparison.

Your tone is condescending.

Ther are plenty of people in Pittsburgh who have never been far outside of Pittsburgh, though I got trashed on this forum for saying so. My DH is from Omaha, Nebraska. When we mentioned Omaha one time to my cousin from Pittsburgh, he thought Omaha was a state! And he is a CMU graduate with a moster's from Rice University in Texas.

I'm going to jump again, because no matter where you go there are stupid people.... and just because someone had enough on the ball to get a higher degree doesn't mean he's not just an overeducated idiot.

Out here in California, I had a co-worker who insisted London was in France. In Pennsylvania, I had a ex-boyfriend that thought eleven was spelled with two L's because Channel 11 spelled it that way. When I came out to California, we had a hard time opening a bank account because PA was in Canada, and our cashier's check wasn't any good because it would have been in Canadian funds. THREE BANKS told us that...

I could go on -- trust me, my days are FILLED with stupid people -- one of them is from ENGLAND! Guess what! There are stupid people from England, too. And with all those good universities....

Your opinion is just that -- your opinion. And your mind seems very closed. You decided you don't like Pittsburgh, which is fine, but now you've made it your mission to make every one else hate it, too.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Your tone is condescending.

I'm going to jump again, because no matter where you go there are stupid people.... and just because someone had enough on the ball to get a higher degree doesn't mean he's not just an overeducated idiot.

Your opinion is just that -- your opinion. And your mind seems very closed. You decided you don't like Pittsburgh, which is fine, but now you've made it your mission to make every one else hate it, too.

I'm sorry if I sounded condescending. That was not my intent. Agree with "overeducated idiot" comment. My remark was in response to what subdivisions said about someone in NC who thought Arizona was a different coutnry. The one who thought Omaha was a state just happened to be from Pgh. He is my cousin, but he is also a dipstick.

So let me explain what I meant. I am tired of reading these posts that go on like "people in Pittsburgh are friendlier than anywhere else", "Pittsburgh has one of the only remaining neighborhood systems in the country", "Pittsburgh supports the arts better than any other city", etc, etc, etc. Obviously, if you say that, you don't know what you are talking about! The above are attributes of almost ANY largish city. You want to see old neighborhoods that were once independent cities? Go to Omaha, Nebraska. Go to Minneapolis. Go just about anywhere! Looking for a city that supports the arts? Try Denver! Try just about anywhere (again). Looking for friendly people? Try being friendly, ANYWHERE!

So I issued a challenge. If you are going to say something like that, give a basis for comparison. And compare it to some place you have been! There are way too many posts, on many different forums on city-data, from people who have never set foot in a city saying stuff like "Denver has snow 9 months of the year" (for example).

I'm glad you know what my mission in life is. That's good because I don't. I'm sorry you think I don't like PIttsburgh. That is not true. I have cautioned people about just packing up and moving there because they read it was on some "top ten" list. I think anyone moving anywhere should investigate the place, especially when voluntarily moving, (as opposed to a job transfer). I have cautioned people about moving to Denver w/o jobs. I stand by what I have said about hearing for 25 years that Pittsburgh is just about ready to turn the corner. I probably will not live long enough to see that happen.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I'm sorry if I sounded condescending. That was not my intent. Agree with "overeducated idiot" comment. My remark was in response to what subdivisions said about someone in NC who thought Arizona was a different coutnry. The one who thought Omaha was a state just happened to be from Pgh. He is my cousin, but he is also a dipstick.

So let me explain what I meant. I am tired of reading these posts that go on like "people in Pittsburgh are friendlier than anywhere else", "Pittsburgh has one of the only remaining neighborhood systems in the country", "Pittsburgh supports the arts better than any other city", etc, etc, etc. Obviously, if you say that, you don't know what you are talking about! The above are attributes of almost ANY largish city. You want to see old neighborhoods that were once independent cities? Go to Omaha, Nebraska. Go to Minneapolis. Go just about anywhere! Looking for a city that supports the arts? Try Denver! Try just about anywhere (again). Looking for friendly people? Try being friendly, ANYWHERE!

So I issued a challenge. If you are going to say something like that, give a basis for comparison. And compare it to some place you have been! There are way too many posts, on many different forums on city-data, from people who have never set foot in a city saying stuff like "Denver has snow 9 months of the year" (for example).

I'm glad you know what my mission in life is. That's good because I don't. I'm sorry you think I don't like Pittsburgh. That is not true. I have cautioned people about just packing up and moving there because they read it was on some "top ten" list. I think anyone moving anywhere should investigate the place, especially when voluntarily moving, (as opposed to a job transfer). I have cautioned people about moving to Denver w/o jobs. I stand by what I have said about hearing for 25 years that Pittsburgh is just about ready to turn the corner. I probably will not live long enough to see that happen.

Oh, all right -- I got up on my white horse and yelled CHARGE!!

And you're right -- a top ten list isn't why a person should move anywhere. Moving somewhere is not a decision to take lightly.... know why we picked here? Brent came here when he was nine and he loved the cool joke postcards in Chinatown, and decided to move here when he could.

Yep -- made a great life out here because of joke postcards. The man is odd...

And you're also right that most cities do the support the arts things, and heck -- neighborhoods abound in the Bay Area. It's hard to quantify these things that make a place special, because the things that would drive one person crazy make the area for another.

But I've seen Pittsburgh touted as being a great place to move to in Kiplingers's Magazine, called a Bohemian Cool Town at Cooltownstudios.com, Smart Money talks about it being a great place to retire and every time I take a where do you want to retire test -- Pittsburgh comes up in the top ten....

And as they say, where there's smoke there's fire...

But I haven't made the decision to move back yet. I'm not ready to retire, and when I retire, Brent may not be ready to pack it in. We may change the scope of the business from owner operator to hiring people. Brent doesn't want to move at all -- but that's more from moving is a pain than moving in general...

[Hopes]

Although I've lived in many places, other countries even, I don't have time to take up your challenge because I have a full schedule ahead of me today.

But I wanted to quickly respond to the following:

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I am tired of reading these posts that go on like "people in Pittsburgh are friendlier than anywhere else",

So many people who move here or come here on business comment on friendly people are in Pittsburgh compared to where they live.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

"Pittsburgh has one of the only remaining neighborhood systems in the country",

If you want data, look for sociology studies. Pittsburgh has been studied because of this very uniqueness. They site the rivers as being part of the reason the ethnic neighborhoods are still intact. They find it fascinating that people who live in the south hills won't drive to the north hills and vise versa.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

""Pittsburgh supports the arts better than any other city",

For a city it's size, Pittsburgh has a lot of cultural arts. Most cities with this population don't have this advantage. We can thank the likes of Andrew Carnegie who felt it was important to establish these institutions in Pittsburgh. Find me other cities with population sizes similar to Pittsburgh that has what Pittsburgh has in this regard, PittNurse.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

""The above are attributes of almost ANY largish city.

But Pittsburgh isn't a largeish city. It's a mid-sized city.