Downtown revenue is up (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: hotels, neighborhoods, buy)

[nuwaver88]

I just heard a report on KDKA radio that the average person spent $66.00 per day in 2008 as oppposed to $46.00 per day in 2006 in the Golden Triangle. This is from the Downtown Partnership. I don't know what criteria they used, but nevertheless it is the same one that they used in 2006 as they did in 2008 and the revenue has increased. A spokesperson for Larrimors clothing store said that Downtown is the "best mall" in the area with the "best restaurants." There is no denying that Downtown, plus Lidias and Eleven In the lower Strip, plus nearby Station Square offer many great choices in dining. Downtown itself tends to focus on the high end after the workday is over. That is not necessarily a bad thing. I just wish that there were more "South Side" type places in the Golden Triangle. You know, beer, sports, wings, open late. Downtown has maybe one or two, in the Courthouse Tavern and The Market Street Ale House. The study also mentioned that nearly 70% of people surveyed feel that Market Square is on the upswing and less "riff raff" is frequenting the area. This is encouraging news for Downtown in a tough economy. I think our downtown will get even better with the many proposed developments, including Market Square, Point Park University, the New Arena..which will sit in a business district on it's south side, Three PNC, continued improvements to the Cultural District and so on. Pittsburgh is not booming, but it is doing things in piecemeal while other cities are stagnating. In a few years, when this recession is history, Pittsburgh will boom. All of these projects, including Riverparc, will get developed. The Meadows and Wheeling Island can do all they want to improve their facilities. I think most people would rather come to Pittsburgh to gamble if they had their choice because all that the city has to offer, including a spectacular setting. I do not mean to sound overly optimistic, but the city and the Downtown Partnership's plan is working very well.

[Geeo]

It is exciting to see all the construction and renovation going on downtown. I think it's slowly finding its niche. Theater, dining, residential, shopping and special events. Like most other cities, it will no longer be the shopping mecca of 50 years ago, but it will offer the services for people that frequent it every day, those who come in for special events, and those who live there. It feels like a dense, high-rise city.

[Tinare]

"I just wish that there were more "South Side" type places in the Golden Triangle. You know, beer, sports, wings, open late."

I would think that will come with more downtown residents. Especially Point Park college student growth.

Also, good to hear that there was growth last year.

"I do not mean to sound overly optimistic, but the city and the Downtown Partnership's plan is working very well."

I don't think it is overly optimistic just given all of the construction. And it's a self-sustaining mix of residential, business, hotels, college facilities and entertainment. They all cause supply and demand for each other.

[Hopes]

The City needs encourage eclectic boutiques instead of trying to lure high end department stores. Downtown could be a fantastic shopping area.

[Tinare]

Originally Posted by Hopes

The City needs encourage eclectic boutiques instead of trying to lure high end department stores. Downtown could be a fantastic shopping area.

I totally agree with this. Murphy's plans used to infuriate me. I don't think downtown should try to directly compete with what is available at local malls. Given the choice between shopping downtown at a department store and going to a mall where you can park for free, do so close to the store, and walk easily to other stores, most folks are going to opt for the mall. So stores need to be more unique. If you look at the neighborhoods that have thriving business districts, you see the organic growth first. Squirrel Hill, Carson Street (other than the Southside Works), Shadyside (other than Walnut, though it was small boutiques before the chains moved in...) and what's happening in Lawrenceville are prime examples. I wish the city would have taken the money they gave to Lazarus and spent on Murphy's grand Fifth and Forbes plans and provided grants and tax breaks to local entrepreneurs to encourage them to open small stores downtown and improve the storefronts. Folks who have a stake in the area and some support from the city won't just pull out quickly like a chain whose profit margins aren't deemed to be high enough by the main office.

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by Tinare

I totally agree with this. Murphy's plans used to infuriate me. I don't think downtown should try to directly compete with what is available at local malls. Given the choice between shopping downtown at a department store and going to a mall where you can park for free, do so close to the store, and walk easily to other stores, most folks are going to opt for the mall. So stores need to be more unique.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but a successful downtown has a mix of unique boutiques, chain stores (high and low end), and quirky weird touristy stuff. I live in a suburb of San Francisco which has a thriving downtown. My daughter loves to shop in SF, even at the same stores she can find at the malls because she loves the downtown experience and because - at least in SF - the downtown stores tend to be much larger and have a better selection than the ones in the malls. And we live between two very nice malls, Hillsdale and Stanford. We do shop more often at the malls, but a trip to the city to shop is a special treat and we tend to spend more on those trips. Her big Christmas present last year was a shopping trip in SF on 12/26. We went with my two cousins and my niece from Napa. It was really fun, big crowds, high energy and she did all her shopping at H & M and Forever 21, both big chain stores. She's 14 and those places have the looks and the prices she wants.

I hope Pittsburgh continues to develop its downtown. It seemed nice, albeit a bit quiet when I visited in 2006. But definitely not a ghost town.

[Tinare]

Originally Posted by juliegt

I'm not disagreeing with you, but a successful downtown has a mix of unique boutiques, chain stores (high and low end), and quirky weird touristy stuff.

I don't disagree with that either. I guess I was looking at it from a first steps prospective. When the former mayor was announcing big plans to revitalize downtown, his concept was to get major retailers in. Which seemed to me to be backward. I think, and I think that Walnut Street in Shadyside and the development of the SouthSide Works are examples, that if you start with small retailers that can attract a first wave of folks to come and buy because you have a unique shopping experience to offer, then the major retailers can come and build on that momentum. It may be a bit of the Pittsburgh mentality of folks who don't come into town regularly already aren't really keen to pay for parking to shop at Macy's as it is, so I think it's hard to start by putting what you can get at the mall downtown and expect the crowds to come. But a mixture of both would be ideal.

[pman]

Small retailers will come on their own, provided there is space for them. A lot of cities prevent this style of development with grand urban renewal plans that involve knocking older buildings (read smaller retail space down). then the urban renewal plans fail, you are left with lots and hulking spaces that only large chains can fill (ever been to market east in Philadelphia?). Malls generally give favorable rates to anchor tenants because they draw traffic so I suppose this is the an urban interpretation of that. the retailers will come with the people and, more specifically, when more people believe this downtown revitalization has legs (which I think it does, timing is everything). If I were a betting man, I'd bet on Market Sq. It has a lot of what is nice about urban places, neat buildings, transit accessibility, proximity to a park (point), and the potential for a lively square. What it's missing most is well run busines, IMO. 1902 was disappointing, should really be a classic pub. For a place with 12 taps I shouldn't struggle to find a decent one. I think Pittsburgh's two biggest obstacles are location (no one to feed off) and the state's business tax burden. That said, I think Pittsburgh can become the regional powerhouse and still improve its downtown core a lot even without the state addressing long term job growth problems.

[BrianTH]

I also think the long term trends are very much in Downtown's favor, particularly given Downtown's growth as a residential area is still relatively new and there is still lots of untapped potential in existing buildings.

[Geeo]

I've been seeing Market Square in a new light in the last couple of years. It's been cleaned up and it has a nice cozy feel in the midst of the downtown skyscrapers. More residential development around it can only make it better.