Obama supports high speed rail to Philly from Pittsburgh

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by mattjd

The big difference is that flying was undertaken by private corporations that saw consumer demand and a potential profit.

The railroads were privately owned. They pay taxes on every mile of Right of Way that they own and in some areas, the tax rate on railroad rights of way is higher than the tax on other commercial properties.

Passenger rail was profitable until the late 50s when government subsidies of roads and air travel, plus a 15% tax on passenger rail tickets enacted during WWII to discourage frivolous travel, took their toll. Still, passenger rail managed to survive through a contract with the US Postal Service until the Postal Service decided to contract out with trucking companies (using subsidized roads).

When the rail transported mail, you could send a standard letter from Chicago to New York and it would be delivered in day.

The fact is that government subsidies for other forms of transportation, plus onerous tax burdens on the railroads, skewed the system for nearly 3/4 of a century. When the Federal government consolidated the railroads (and took over Penn Central), they gave the tracks and rights of way to Conrail, except for the NEC. As a result, Amtrak had no real assets to speak of and had to rely on the freight rails for its schedule.

Originally Posted by mattjd

There is little to no consumer demand for more trains,

Wrong, again. Ridership on Amtrak, until the recession, was increasing and was the highest it has ever been, historically. Ridership is up on all forms of commuter rail in nearly every community in the United States and cities like Chicago, DC, New York, Houston and LA are actually adding LRT and commuter rail routes to meet increasing demand.

Originally Posted by mattjd

This thing is going to be owned and operated by the government and will not make any profit.

Wrong, again. Most of the economic stimulus money intended for HSR will be given to regional rail initiatives some of which will contract with Amtrak to operate the routes and some of which will use other public or private carriers. While it is true that HSR does not always cover initial capital outlays, in every country in the world where HSR is operating, revenues meet or exceed operating expenses.

Last year the Highway Trust Fund required $8 billion more than the $47 billion it brought in through fuel taxes, just to keep existing projects going. The collapse of the bridge in the Twin Cities was an example of a catastrophe which resulted from inadequate funding of our highway system. In order to keep the roadways safe it will require considerably more than the current budget.

Originally Posted by mattjd

See the difference there? The government is not filling a need that the private sector won't. The government is inventing a need and hoping enough people will stop driving and flying to make a profit. And if you guys think there is this HUGE demand for high speed trains, why hasn't any company invested in this?

Oh, sure. The private sector built the roadways? The private sector created the air traffic control system? The private sector operates and maintains public safety programs for the roads and airways?

It is good to have an understanding of economics but it is also valuable to understand history.

[simetime]

Originally Posted by ainulinale

Thank God we're not spending billions to transfer a bunch of idiot college students to Penn State.

Believe it or not those "idiot" kids from Penn State spend alot of money going back and forth from school to philly and pittsburgh. If you ever seen how packed the buses are going to those places during spring break

[simetime]

Originally Posted by user_id

Yes the same considerations apply to flying...and? I was rather obviously comparing rail travel with automobiles on this particular route. The automobile is in your garage, you don't need to travel do it. The train will only be noticeably faster for a fairly small group of people. Talking about the time to travel between train stations is highly misleading, as the majority of riders will have to travel a decent distance to the train stations in question.




Its usefulness is proportional to the current number of HSR systems in the US, namely zero.

You are right but I guess that would depend on wherre the stations are The Amtrack station is in downtown Pittsburgh the one in Philly is not really out of the way either