More Praise for Downtown Living (school district, versus, pool)

[fleetiebelle]

Our Downtown just doesn't have anything close to that level of critical mass for families and I don't see it getting that close, especially given that Downtown is so close to Pittsburgh's already-established family-friendly areas.

But we need that first influx of young families to blaze the trail, so to speak, to make downtown living more viable.

It's the same thing with city schools. If everyone with children flees to the suburbs because of schools, no improvments will ever be made.

[mattjd]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

But we need that first influx of young families to blaze the trail, so to speak, to make downtown living more viable.

It's the same thing with city schools. If everyone with children flees to the suburbs because of schools, no improvments will ever be made.

I agree, but it is difficult to live downtown without a vehicle. It's too bad some of that stimulus money didn't go to expanding the T east to Monroeville and from the north side connector to at least Ross or Wexford. Without the T being expanded it's going to be hard to get a lot of people to live downtown. You can't expect someone to pay all that money for a downtown condo and want to ride the bus around.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

It's the same thing with city schools. If everyone with children flees to the suburbs because of schools, no improvments will ever be made.

I've discovered a significant problem with the Pittsburgh Public Schools. Families moving into the city can't be guaranteed that their children will attend the same schools. For instance, if you have 5 high school students, all 5 siblings won't be placed in the same high school because they place the children according to space availability. If no schools have 5 spots available, the siblings will be scattered among different schools. I know this because I recently called the district to find out which school a served a certain neighborhood. When she heard how many teenagers, she told me that they all would not be placed in the same high school because of space constraints, not this month and not for the start of next school year. NO WONDER people prefer a suburban school. The suburbs NEVER say there's no room in the middle school or high school. They can't say it because it's illegal. No family wants to enroll their children in a district knowing there's a 1-1/2 wait to get all of their children into the same school, if they ever get placed together at all.

[pman]

Originally Posted by mattjd

I agree, but it is difficult to live downtown without a vehicle. It's too bad some of that stimulus money didn't go to expanding the T east to Monroeville and from the north side connector to at least Ross or Wexford. Without the T being expanded it's going to be hard to get a lot of people to live downtown. You can't expect someone to pay all that money for a downtown condo and want to ride the bus around.

over time, more things will open to serve the resident population. there's already one grocery store, if the population doubles again there may be two or three. places may start keeping longer hours, etc.

[fleetiebelle]

You can't expect someone to pay all that money for a downtown condo and want to ride the bus around.

We can assume that people who pay top dollar for condos can also afford to pay for a garage space or two for their cars. And a lot of people don't own cars at all and prefer to make do with public transport and Zipcar. If you've always had a car, it's hard to fathom that many many people live happily without them.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by pman

over time, more things will open to serve the resident population. there's already one grocery store, if the population doubles again there may be two or three. places may start keeping longer hours, etc.

Even better would be for some enterprising people to both open up shop and live in downtown. That way they can just walk to work, and anything they do to make business better would make where they live better. It's a pretty good feedback loop.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by scrapp

Our Downtown just doesn't have anything close to that level of critical mass for families and I don't see it getting that close, especially given that Downtown is so close to Pittsburgh's already-established family-friendly areas. For example, the east end also has proximity to the kinds of "daytime stuff" you list above, it is walkable, and it is well connected by PAT.

I guess I see it as a matter of degrees. To reiterate, I am not claiming anything in Pittsburgh is exactly like Manhattan, but I certainly think living in Downtown would feel closer to a purely urban lifestyle than living in the East End. Similarly, while most places in most neighborhoods in the East End are within walking distance of something fun for families, I'm not sure any East End place is within walking distance of as much stuff as Downtown. Also similarly, while public transportation in the East End is pretty good for heading to other parts of the East End or Downtown, it can become a bit awkward if you want to go to other non-East End/non-Downtown destinations. In contrast, since most places on the public transportation system have a way to feed directly into Downtown, you can also feed directly back out of Downtown to most places.

To sum up, I love living in the East End and am quite happy to have located my family here. But I can see the unique appeal living Downtown could have to a family with slightly different priorities than my own.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

And a lot of people don't own cars at all and prefer to make do with public transport and Zipcar.

Downtown is really made for the Zipcar lifestyle (and Zipcar appears to know it). For what it is worth, I also don't mind riding buses, and the East Busway in particular seems fairly close to the light rail experiences I have had.

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

But we need that first influx of young families to blaze the trail, so to speak, to make downtown living more viable.

It's the same thing with city schools. If everyone with children flees to the suburbs because of schools, no improvments will ever be made.

The way I look at it is that there is a finite amount of development resources that the city (or school district) can apply towards development and improvements. In the case of family-friendly residential development, what I am saying is that I would much rather see the city invest on improving what it already has outside of Downtown rather than try to create something new Downtown.

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I've discovered a significant problem with the Pittsburgh Public Schools. Families moving into the city can't be guaranteed that their children will attend the same schools. ...

That sounds odd. I can't speak for PPS High Schools, but with K-8 schools we were told that if you live in the feeder pattern of your school then you can always go there. For example, the principal of Colfax K-8 has said that they have enough students that it would be difficult to transfer in if you lived outside of the feeder pattern, but if you live in the feeder pattern then you are OK.

That being said, with the magnet schools it may be that your kids will have different interests and end up at different high schools anyway (e.g. one kid may want to go to CAPA while another may be at Alderdice).