Dying Mon River towns (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: universities, place to live, versus)

[Nick538]

The Mon-Valley COULD make a comeback, but it's highly unlikely. First off, let me dispose of the merger argument. While it is true that Roscoe, Elco, Stockdale and Allenport have merged police forces (RESA), what kind of protection do they really have? One officer on duty for 40 hours per week is not exactly what taxpayers want. The local population must cease their overreliance on State Police protection. The SP can only do so much. It makes me sick to read about places like Hempfield, a township with an area 3 times the size of Fallowfield, and 20,000 or more residents (many of them wealthy), relying on State Police because they are too cheap to pay their own police.

Back to my point. The Valley's topography does not lend itself to mergers and joint services. For example, putting school districts together is not realistic. Kids will spend far too much time on school buses. Merging police and fire services does not make sense, either, unless it is part of a joint response agreement (ie. answering calls in each other's towns, etc.).

There are very few large scale areas available for development. Infastructure is crumbling and political corruption and one party rule are not helpful, either. PA's corporate tax rate, 9.99%, is the second highest in the nation. A Closed Shop/Union environment also scares off potential employers. Do you want to save the state, and the valley?

1. Pass an Open Shop law. Ban strikes by teachers and transit workers.
2. Do away with "Prevailing Wage".
3. Cut corporate taxes to the bone.
4. Offer incentives to attract high paying jobs.
5. Fight for federal handouts (really, your own money under another name) to destroy and redevelop blighted properties. (Passing through Charleroi and looking at the homes gives one the impression that the town was hit by a massive flood, and was never cleaned up after the water receded. Charleroi is dirty, unkempt, decrepit, dilapidated, faded, gray, full of empty storefronts and cracked streets).
6. If the government is going to spend your money, demand that they spend it on infastructure (roads, bridges, ramps, streets, sewers, etc.).
7. Crack down, harshly, on crime and political corruption.
8. Understand and accept that the steel mills are NEVER coming back.
9. Try and attract small and mid-size offices such as law firms, investment firms, engineering companies, contractors, technology firms, transportation companies, etc. to the area.
10. Focus on for-profit and families, not non-profit and seniors.
11. Oppose every housing project or HUD grant program out there. Adopt a NIMBY attitude towards people of low character.
12. Vote out politicians who don't help the Valley EARN its' living (yes, seniors, that means you might have to think while you vote and pull the 'R' lever.)

There are other ideas but this is a start.

[jawnnycash]

I almost think this thread is ridiculous. I grew up in the Mon Valley. We own a BBQ place right on the river - Welcome to The Rib cage BBQ!- - and we do more business then you would imagine. Just because these areas are run down in the eyes of outsiders does not mean that the people who live there do not love their area. Like many other posters said, people and families still live in these places, they still have jobs here, and the mon valley is better off then many other places in Pittsburgh.

[SewickleyPA]

Originally Posted by jawnnycash

I almost think this thread is ridiculous. I grew up in the Mon Valley. We own a BBQ place right on the river - Welcome to The Rib cage BBQ!- - and we do more business then you would imagine. Just because these areas are run down in the eyes of outsiders does not mean that the people who live there do not love their area. Like many other posters said, people and families still live in these places, they still have jobs here, and the mon valley is better off then many other places in Pittsburgh.

Just out of curiosity, what would those places be? Homewood, Wilkinsburg, upper North side? If you are including the ghettos then yeah the Mon Valley isn't so bad of a place to live i guess.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by SewickleyPA

Just out of curiosity, what would those places be? Homewood, Wilkinsburg, upper North side? If you are including the ghettos then yeah the Mon Valley isn't so bad of a place to live i guess.

Yeh, not a particularly high bar to clear.

Whatever the problems of these other places, it doesn't change the fact that the Mon Valley is struggling mightily.

[mckeesport_alum]

Originally Posted by PeterRabbit

We're ignoring the OP's question. Merger seems to be a good idea. Considering the hard times and nothing getting better in these towns, why have 6 chiefs of police/fire depts., mayors, tax collectors, etal.? What would be some of the obstacles that need to be overcome?

This. And these areas, like my hometown, would get some good revival if it were possible to blow up 1/2 of the unoccupied housing due to flight and replace with trees / parks / community centers. Allegheny County has way too many layers of government in general. Such waste and what does it amount to in the end?

[Drover]

^^What it amounts to is this: greater responsiveness and accountability at the local level. Larger government agencies have more constituents to try to make happy, and the more you try to make happy, the more likely that few or none of them will be. You may save money, but the tradeoff is to have a larger bureaucracy that cares less about your specific town.

[mckeesport_alum]

Originally Posted by Drover

^^What it amounts to is this: greater responsiveness and accountability at the local level. Larger government agencies have more constituents to try to make happy, and the more you try to make happy, the more likely that few or none of them will be. You may save money, but the tradeoff is to have a larger bureaucracy that cares less about your specific town.

Correct. But does the population warrant the cost? I'd like to have a gourmet steak dinner every night but I don't have the resources to support it.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by mckeesport_alum

Correct. But does the population warrant the cost? I'd like to have a gourmet steak dinner every night but I don't have the resources to support it.

I get what you're saying, there are arguments for both sides. But while distressed communities may not be able to afford the kind services they want, what you risk with consolidation, especially when consolidating with other distressed communities, is that not only does the level of services not improve, but it becomes harder to hold officials accountable when the level of services they provide is unsatisfactory. If the goal is simply to save money without regard to quality of services, consolidation makes sense. If the goal is to improve services, that is a dicier proposition. If the goal is more responsive government, forget it.

[RoscoeBull]

Originally Posted by Nick538

The Mon-Valley COULD make a comeback, but it's highly unlikely. First off, let me dispose of the merger argument. While it is true that Roscoe, Elco, Stockdale and Allenport have merged police forces (RESA), what kind of protection do they really have? One officer on duty for 40 hours per week is not exactly what taxpayers want. The local population must cease their overreliance on State Police protection. The SP can only do so much. It makes me sick to read about places like Hempfield, a township with an area 3 times the size of Fallowfield, and 20,000 or more residents (many of them wealthy), relying on State Police because they are too cheap to pay their own police.

Back to my point. The Valley's topography does not lend itself to mergers and joint services. For example, putting school districts together is not realistic. Kids will spend far too much time on school buses. Merging police and fire services does not make sense, either, unless it is part of a joint response agreement (ie. answering calls in each other's towns, etc.).

There are very few large scale areas available for development. Infastructure is crumbling and political corruption and one party rule are not helpful, either. PA's corporate tax rate, 9.99%, is the second highest in the nation. A Closed Shop/Union environment also scares off potential employers. Do you want to save the state, and the valley?

1. Pass an Open Shop law. Ban strikes by teachers and transit workers.
2. Do away with "Prevailing Wage".
3. Cut corporate taxes to the bone.
4. Offer incentives to attract high paying jobs.
5. Fight for federal handouts (really, your own money under another name) to destroy and redevelop blighted properties. (Passing through Charleroi and looking at the homes gives one the impression that the town was hit by a massive flood, and was never cleaned up after the water receded. Charleroi is dirty, unkempt, decrepit, dilapidated, faded, gray, full of empty storefronts and cracked streets).
6. If the government is going to spend your money, demand that they spend it on infastructure (roads, bridges, ramps, streets, sewers, etc.).
7. Crack down, harshly, on crime and political corruption.
8. Understand and accept that the steel mills are NEVER coming back.
9. Try and attract small and mid-size offices such as law firms, investment firms, engineering companies, contractors, technology firms, transportation companies, etc. to the area.
10. Focus on for-profit and families, not non-profit and seniors.
11. Oppose every housing project or HUD grant program out there. Adopt a NIMBY attitude towards people of low character.
12. Vote out politicians who don't help the Valley EARN its' living (yes, seniors, that means you might have to think while you vote and pull the 'R' lever.)

There are other ideas but this is a start.

I can tell that you have no strong roots in any small town!
People in these small towns are proud of their roots.
We work hard for what we have.
We weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths!
It sounds like you were!
You sound like a Wall Street kind of guy.
You care about no one but yourself.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

I can tell that you have no strong roots in any small town!

My parents grew up in rural northern Missouri, and even they've said that the mid-Mon Valley is a lost cause. What purpose does a company town have when the company leaves?

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

People in these small towns are proud of their roots.

But what if the roots are all that's left?

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

We work hard for what we have.

You know, elitism isn't just somebody boasting about how smart, rich or sophisticated they are. Elitism can also be somebody boasting about how much harder they work than everybody else.

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

We weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths!

Join the ****ing club. That just makes you like 95 percent of everybody else.

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

It sounds like you were!

No, or I would never have grown up in Penn Hills.

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

You sound like a Wall Street kind of guy.

'Cuz I'm sure you've met a few and know what they're like.

Originally Posted by RoscoeBull

You care about no one but yourself.

Actually, we care about the region. We care about the bigger picture. We care about what is, and what will be. You seem to care more about what was than anything else. You're the one trying to justify the existence of company towns without companies. Nothing lasts forever, not even communities. If Rhyolite, NV could disappear due to economic forces, then so can anyplace else.