The Pittsburgh I love is despised (insuring, mortgage, homes)

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by kettlepot

Katiana, for the purposes of this thread discussion it's important to differentiate between cosmetic remodeling, and functional upgrades to electrical, plumbing, and heating systems.

I understand the importance of updating these functional systems, and of also doing necessary repairs for cosmetic reasons. What disturbs me are things like:

ripping out a bathroom's original fixtures, tub, and subway tile and then replacing it with a modern bath/tub insert and 12 inch tile;

painting over the original woodwork, because that dark veneer is just too "gloomy and old-fashioned";

ripping out the original kitchen cabinets and replacing them with pre-fabbed stock cabinets from your local home store because you want a "modern" kitchen;

cutting a hole in the wall between your kitchen and your traditional dining room and adding bar stools and a counter;

replacing the original double-hung windows with vinyl sliders.

It's these things that people spend tens of thousands of dollars on, which actually impair the resale value of their homes. Perhaps, in Pittsburgh, the haphazard glomming of "new and modern" on to an old house is still a value an enhancer, but not where I live.

Remember there was a time when all of those Victorians in San Francisco, and Brownstones in New York City were considered eyesores and were being left to decay and fall into ruin. Now, they are a vital part of each cities appeal. And the buildings that command the highest prices are the ones that are most intact from a preservation point of view. People who want the conveniences and feel of a modern tract home, shouldn't try to convert an older home into something modern. It usually will fail at being either modern or traditional, and will appeal to nobody.

Amen! When I move to Pittsburgh, I want to find an old home that hasn't had the "upgrades" you describe. They're hard to find, and often the homes that haven't had the questionable remodels have not been well-maintained.

[ldtowers]

There simply is no way to cost effectively replace these older buildings with something better. New contruction basically stinks unless you are willing to spend a substantial sum. The old housing can be effectively upgraded for much less than new quality housing. Any new housing that can be built for less than or equal to quality renovation/restoration is garbage housing that will not stand the test of time. Replacing windows/ insulation and electrical is all a comparatively low cost affair.

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by ldtowers

There simply is no way to cost effectively replace these older buildings with something better. New contruction basically stinks unless you are willing to spend a substantial sum. The old housing can be effectively upgraded for much less than new quality housing. Any new housing that can be built for less than or equal to quality renovation/restoration is garbage housing that will not stand the test of time. Replacing windows/ insulation and electrical is all a comparatively low cost affair.

And, if you want to spend the money you can get replacement windows that look historically correct, but have modern features such as dual pane, low-e, etc.

[kettlepot]

Originally Posted by juliegt

And, if you want to spend the money you can get replacement windows that look historically correct, but have modern features such as dual pane, low-e, etc.

The window issue is a tough nut to crack. I appreciate the need for energy efficient windows in a place with a climate like Pittsburgh's. Sound dampening can be important too. If a homeowner is going to do the window replacement, they should at least replace the old windows with new ones that look appropriate: higher quality double hung vinyl windows rather than aluminum sliders. And whatever you do, NEVER take out the stained glass!

As for kitchen counter tops, tile was used continuously throughout the 20th century. Linoleum, formica, and now granite have each had their days, but if you want to retro-model your kitchen, tile is always a safe choice. Just make sure to use tile that is appropriately small, and your kitchen will have the right feel.

Now, I have a question for you actual Burghers. On R/E websites, I see pictures of house interiors with fireplace mantels that look like the hearth has been covered over with an insert that I've been presuming is there to conserve your heat, and keep it from going up the chimney. Is that actually the case? Or are these fireplaces with inserts decorative only? Can you actually remove the insert and occasionally use it, and burn real wood, or perhaps even coal, as they really would have done?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by kettlepot

The window issue is a tough nut to crack. I appreciate the need for energy efficient windows in a place with a climate like Pittsburgh's. Sound dampening can be important too. If a homeowner is going to do the window replacement, they should at least replace the old windows with new ones that look appropriate: higher quality double hung vinyl windows rather than aluminum sliders. And whatever you do, NEVER take out the stained glass!

Agreed all around, particularly on the stained glass.

Now, I have a question for you actual Burghers. On R/E websites, I see pictures of house interiors with fireplace mantels that look like the hearth has been covered over with an insert that I've been presuming is there to conserve your heat, and keep it from going up the chimney. Is that actually the case? Or are these fireplaces with inserts decorative only? Can you actually remove the insert and occasionally use it, and burn real wood, or perhaps even coal, as they really would have done?

A lot of the inserts are in real but currently nonfunctional fireplaces. You really never know what you might find if you open one--it could be ready to go with a cleaning, or it could be full of asbestos, or maybe stuffed with a missing person . . . OK, that last is a joke (I hope).

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

(3) The original wiring from this era--usually knob-and-tube--is actually perfectly fine (in some ways preferable) for basic lighting and consumer electronics, but you usually do need an entirely new modern service for any heavy-duty appliances, kitchens, and baths. Fortunately, if most of that stuff is going to be in the basement and on the first floor, it is pretty easy to add the new circuits by stringing the basement ceiling, and it is also pretty easy to get to upper-floor baths by following the plumbing. But if you want all the knob-and-tube completely gone (which I think is unnecessary), depending on the circumstances that may again involve tearing up walls.

Another issue here is home insurance. Many companies will no longer insure houses with knob and tube, and I think this trend is likely to continue. For example, USAA refused to cover our house when they found out we had some active knob and tube on our second and third floors.

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

A lot of the inserts are in real but currently nonfunctional fireplaces. You really never know what you might find if you open one--it could be ready to go with a cleaning, or it could be full of asbestos, or maybe stuffed with a missing person . . . OK, that last is a joke (I hope).

Yeah, a number of our fireplaces have (or used to have) gas burners with an asbestos sheet on the front for the flame to go on. The home inspector called them "Taylor Burners." That is something good to cover or remove (at least I don't want my kids playing in it).

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Agreed all around, particularly on the stained glass.



A lot of the inserts are in real but currently nonfunctional fireplaces. You really never know what you might find if you open one--it could be ready to go with a cleaning, or it could be full of asbestos, or maybe stuffed with a missing person . . . OK, that last is a joke (I hope).

Ha! When my parents decided to get the old fireplace cleaned out when they bought "this old house", they found bats in it!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by scrapp

Another issue here is home insurance. Many companies will no longer insure houses with knob and tube, and I think this trend is likely to continue. For example, USAA refused to cover our house when they found out we had some active knob and tube on our second and third floors.

We actually bought a house with active knob-and-tube last year and had no problem with the insurance.

[Copanut]

Knob and tube is not a bad system, most banks will accept that kind of wiring when giving a loan.