What is the Butler area like? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: crime, appliances, credit report)

[RoughCollie]

We are looking at a house in Fenelton. At least two of our four kids would attend the high school in Butler. The other two are still homeschooled, but they have the option of attending the high school if they would prefer it.

The house is in a rather rural location, on 2.5 acres of land. I can't find any information on Fenelton, so I wonder if there is a town there.

Butler itself seems to be similar to our town, except that it gets 30" less snow, is twice as conservative, and doesn't seem to be in as densely a populated area as eastern Mass.

I've never lived in such a rural area before, and I wonder what it would be like. This house is not in a subdivision, which is one thing I like about it.

Thanks,
RC

[Hopes]

How explain rural PA? I'm at a loss for words. It's not bad, it's just different.

There's more wide-spread poverty whereas in the city the poverty is isolated to individual neighborhoods. Even though there's poverty, it's safer than the poor city neighborhoods. There are no gangs in Butler. Drugs are a concern because there's not much else to do. Along with the poverty means that there is a significant number of less educated and under-employeed people spread throughout the county.

There are beautiful houses and educated people scattered among the impoverished. It's very possible that the next closest house to yours has stuffed furniture on the front porch and old cars in the yard. I'm not saying that's the case for this particular house, but those types of houses are scattered everywhere---handed down from generation to generation perhaps.

I guess I'm trying to stay that Butler isn't segregated financially. There are lots of great people in Butler across the spectrum from hardworking farm families to educated professionals who wanted more land.

Fenelton probably doens't have a town. It's between Butler and Kittanning, two fairly larged sized towns.

[RoughCollie]

My husband and I are both highly educated. Do you think our family would be intellectually isolated if we lived there?

We do not want that to happen. We have lots in common with people from all walks of life, but we need to be around intellectually stimulating people, as well.

Thanks,
RC

[LiveinPA]

I think what Hopes said is accurate...but I will elaborate at the risk of angering some people here. That's OK because I'm just going to give you my opinion from someone who has lived in Butler for the last 7 years.

I have lived in quite a few places on both the East and West side of the US. Small towns up to Los Angeles.

My wife and are moving finally and we were talking at dinner about how no matter where we end up we will always compare in the fashion of "at least it's not Butler".

Pittsburgh proper has some compelling things going for it, although not my cup of tea.

Butler has no culture...a Walmart? Nice countrysides to look at in some areas I guess...but that wears off quickly.

There aren't gangs or anything but there are drugs and there is crime and it's on the rise. If you're actually out in the country though you'd be insulated from it hopefully.

Most of the people here are of low educational status, that doesn't really have to mean anything...but it does. We live in a decent area and as I write this my neighbors are burning their trash...again...cheaper than trash service I guess. We are in a 200k+ house neighborhood for what it's worth.

Lots of redneck types here...I saw a guy in the grocery store yesterday that was totally shirtless and shoeless...I think they asked him to leave. Lots of "pickup truck culture".

Flat out- YES you will be intellectually isolated.

You mentioned homeschooling, you should know that PA is one of the most draconian homeschooling states around. Make sure you really want to jump through those hoops before the move.

There are areas in Butler COUNTY that are nicer like Cranberry Twp. but Butler itself is basically a steel town that has collapsed. Lots of poverty and elderly who are in bad situations. There's a Walmart, a VA hospital...a crappy mall. Not my idea of a life.

The Butler hospital is AWFUL. Do not go there unless you are bleeding to death. They have screwed up more things for my wife and I than I even thought imaginable.

There is a "good 'ole boys" network here. I think that's all that needs said in that regard.

If your idea of "culture" is eating beernuts and talking about the "Stillers" than Butler is for you.

You mentioned that Butler is conservative...in many regards it is. But the local farmers will ALWAYS vote for more subsidies and the elderly population wants their benefits and will make sure you "youngins" (anyone under 65) pays for them. It's been said this is the most "conservative" Democratic area around.

There is a lot of hate for younger people...I've never seen this anywhere. The elderly in the area have a sense of entitlement that I've never seen either. If you are young and successful you must be a drug dealer in their eyes...I have been accused of this personally! Most of my neighbors are in some fashion related...the whole way down my road...could be a good thing except I'm not in the clique and am apparently a drug deal because I'm under 40 and drive a nice car.

Their misery must be shared apparently.

I could go on, I'm just ranting...someone will probably post more positive stuff and you can make up your own decision. I HATE Butler. Will not miss it here.

[Hopes]

I want to point out that this describes any rural area in the surrounding counties, not just Butler County's rural areas.

If you like boating, fishing, hunting, horseback riding, ect., it's the perfect place to live regardless of income.

My sister built a house on 40 acres in Butler County. She's in farm country, not a development. When they first purchased the property, all they saw was beautiful countryside. During the construction, she started noticing the stuffed furniture on porches, the appliances in the yards, and the toothless people in the diners. Fortunately, her immediate neighbors don't live like that.

I say this with all the love in my heart: my sister was not an intellectual when she moved there. By comparison, she's an intellectual or became one simply from the stark difference of an average Allegheny County intellect to Butler County's. It was a huge adjustment for them.

Her husband was able to connect with the locals because he's an avid sportsman. Her impeccable manners allowed her to endured his friends' wives until she eventually found common ground with them once she became a mother a few years later.

Conservative minded before they moved to Butler, they became almost elitist which is a strange mix for conservatives. They won't send their children to public school. They import most of their friends by entertaining lifelong friends and relatives from Allegheny County with bon fires, picnics and swimming parties at their house. Through the private school, they've found many parents who are more similar to them. But they still maintain their friendships and acquaintences with the local families because those are the people they first befriended in their childless years.

I'll only disagree with LiveinPA about Butler Memorial Hospital. It's not that bad. I wouldn't hesitate to go there for emergencies. I lived in West Deer when I was pregnant and went to Butler's emergency room with a month long infection. For a month, nobody in Allegheny County would treat me because I was pregnant and my pediatrician wouldn't prescribe antibiotics. I thank God that the ER doctors at Butler gave me a safe prescription for pregnancy because I might have ended up with sepsis.

Granted, I wouldn't go to Butler for cancer treatment or anything requiring a specialist to manage something complicated. Even the locals drive into Pittsburgh for special treatment. I'd have a bone set there or an appendix removed. If I were in the emergency room in life threatening condition, I would insist on being transported to a Pittsburgh hospital whenver I was stable enough to transport.

Butler Memorial is a community hospital. Community hospitals provide routine medical treatment. The hospital is fine in that regard.

Will you be intellectually isolated? Yes. However, you'll be intellectually isolated in almost every rural area in Pennsylvania unless you're near a college town. I think that's the case in any rural area in the entire country. The area you currently live is more of a bedroom community for a large metropolitian area. Even though it's a rural county, it has become a true suburb of the city with its saturation of housing developments for people who are commuting into the city. Western Pennsylvania doesn't have much of that. Eastern Pennsylvania does because it's becoming a bedroom community for NYC residents. (I can't imagine how anyone could commute that far to work!) Philadelphia's surrounding counties are probably more like where you live now. It's more expensive in the eastern part of the state where it isn't rural though.

[LiveinPA]

On the topic of Butler hospital...they have the worst rate of hospital-acquired infections in the state. (Report Reveals Local Hospital Infection Rates - Health News Story - WTAE Pittsburgh)

On multiple occasions we had to go there for routine tests and after weeks of waiting were told they either lost the test results or the sample...didn't stop them from billing us for them though.

The last two times we went there they screwed it up again. The first time they entered a list of 10 test codes wrong in their computer resulting in 10 tests done completely wrong. We were billed of course and had to spend months fighting it...went on my wife's credit report because we refused to pay the incorrect bill...still fighting that.

The next time they told us we could use one of their outpatient labs to do a blood draw. Upon arriving we were told it could only be done at the hospital...this was a test that had to be done exactly at a certain time and on a certain day of my wife's cycle so this was no small deal.

We raced to the hospital and got the test done slightly late but though it was OK. Butler hospital failed to refrigerate the sample so it was invalid. Billed us for it again though. Had to wait another month to test again.

The one time I was there for a kidney stone my doctor asked me if I might have been exposed to any STDs...I said no to which he replied, "that's good, the Butler area seems to have the highest rate of STDs I've seen anywhere I've worked." He was new to the hospital and this made me laugh out loud.

I'm sure there are people who do just fine at the hospital, but I've given them a chance and will not be returning unless I'm in a dire emergency where time is an issue.

P.S. For what it's worth, I'm a conservative guy and an outdoor lover. My wife says that Butler is full of "cowboys who've never seen a horse" which aptly describes the rednecks here who run around in cowboy boots and pickup trucks but who don't do much more than spit tobacco all over the ground and watch the Steelers.

Anyway, just my .02 again.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I say this with all the love in my heart: my sister was not an intellectual when she moved there. By comparison, she's an intellectual or became one simply from the stark difference of an average Allegheny County intellect to Butler County's. It was a huge adjustment for them.

That's kind of like when I go to West Virginia, I automatically become smarter, better looking, and skinny.

The suburbs of Butler are pretty decent, the urban area is starting to look bad. As to the people, my buddy married a girl from that area. The reception was naturally held at a fire hall. You could easily identify those of us from outside Butler, we were wearing suits and ties. I'll never forget the one guy wearing a hat at the wedding with a clock on it that said: Time to fish.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by LiveinPA

On the topic of Butler hospital...they have the worst rate of hospital-acquired infections in the state. (Report Reveals Local Hospital Infection Rates - Health News Story - WTAE Pittsburgh)

That was an obvious risk I noticed when I visited my sister after her baby was born. The nurse washed her hands before touching the baby, but she didn't wash her hands before touching my sister. I went to the store and bought cleaning products, lysol and hand sanitizer for her. I disinfected her bathroom and all of the surfaces in her room---except the floor, I'm crazy but not that crazy. I told her to not be shy about insisting people wash their hands prior to touching her. Pittsburgh area hospitals have signs everywhere asking you to remind staff. My sister escaped unscathed. Unfortunately, my other sister was less fortunate at Presby where she got a staph infection that nearly killed her.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by COPANUT

The suburbs of Butler are pretty decent, the urban area is starting to look bad. As to the people, my buddy married a girl from that area. The reception was naturally held at a fire hall. You could easily identify those of us from outside Butler, we were wearing suits and ties. I'll never forget the one guy wearing a hat at the wedding with a clock on it that said: Time to fish.

This certainly puts Butler into visual perspective!

[fleetiebelle]

You could easily identify those of us from outside Butler,

I went to a baby shower for a friend that was like this. We walked in, and the older lady relatives whispered loudly "those must be her city friends."