PA Drivers rated as some of the most unintelligent. (Pittsburgh: insurance, unemployed)

[toosie]

Two comments related to previous posts...

1. Just because right turn on red is allowed, does not mean that drivers must turn on red.

2. Regardless of how fast most drivers are going, as long as a driver is going the legal speed minimum and not exceeding the maximum, then so be it.

Those situations might be frustrating to others but that's their problem and, IMO, they should resolve it safely and courteously - not rudely and aggressively. Some people need to grow up and realize it isn't all about them.

[scottrpriester]

Originally Posted by Heit

I'll agree, it does result in gridlock. I would bet that you would still have gridlock even if ALL the drivers were "excellent". It's the geography of Pittsburgh and it's roads. Take a lot of cars and funnel them down into TWO LANES. The result will be a major SLOW DOWN.

It goes with the territory. It's a personal CHOICE how YOU will let it effect you.

That's hilarious.

So, the example I mentioned earlier. I live on South Braddock, but most usually drive to Squirrel Hill to zip on to Parkway East. I do so because hundreds of people every day insist on not doing the same, and they end up sitting in a multi mile backlog to the Squirrel Hill tunnel.
So, does topography cause this, or is it because hundreds of people decide there is no other option than to sit in that nonsense traffic?

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

So, does topography cause this, or is it because hundreds of people decide there is no other option than to sit in that nonsense traffic?

It's because hundreds of people are afraid of the tunnel caused by the topography.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Is the "normal speed of traffic" the posted limit, or is it the real world speed that everybody else is moving at? Which is usually, as Hopes posted, 10 to 20 over the limit. The part that says, "...at the time and place and under the conditions then existing..." seems to me to allow for somebody moving at the legal limit to actually be in violation of the law, if they're in the left lane.

Legally, the "normal speed of traffic" is not defined by "the norm" but by the maximally allowed speed of traffic. The reason for the language is that it is understood that the maximum speed limit might exceed the reasonable and safe speed limit in certain situations, such as ice on the road, rain, etc.

In these cases, the implied legal speed limit is the maximum speed at which traffic can safely progress which means that you can be guilty of reckeless operation if you exceed this speed even if you don't exceed the posted maximum.

Most (i.e. "normally") people don't use their turn signal to indicate a lane change but a lane change without signalling is illegal.

[trotter_rej]

Originally Posted by toosie

Just because right turn on red is allowed, does not mean that drivers must turn on red.

I accept that some intersections have poor site lines due to parked cars, trees, topography, etc., and not everyone has the same definition for when there is enough room to safely make the right on red. But if the cross-street is deserted and the site lines are clear and the person in front of me doesn't turn on red, there will be some serious eye-rolling going on in my car .

Originally Posted by toosie

Regardless of how fast most drivers are going, as long as a driver is going the legal speed minimum and not exceeding the maximum, then so be it.

By the same token, if a driver chooses to drive below the legal limit, IMO it is not rude or aggressive for another driver to pass them if it is legal and safe to do so, even on a two-lane road that is marked for passing.

I found the article the KDKA story was based on (I think) Where the Worst Drivers Live- Yahoo! Autos Article Page. The results are based on respondents' ability to pass their state's written driver's test. I took the test and got a 95%. IMO, that says very little about my driving ability, but confirms that I at least know what the rules are .

[Mugatu]

Originally Posted by trotter_rej

By the same token, if a driver chooses to drive below the legal limit, IMO it is not rude or aggressive for another driver to pass them if it is legal and safe to do so, even on a two-lane road that is marked for passing.

But that's the problem with Pittsburgh, unless you are on an interstate, there is a very good chance that you are on a 2 lane road where you aren't allowed to pass. So when you get behind someone poking along at 10mph under the speed limit and catching every red light along the way, you can be stuck behind them for MILES.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Mugatu

But that's the problem with Pittsburgh, unless you are on an interstate, there is a very good chance that you are on a 2 lane road where you aren't allowed to pass. So when you get behind someone poking along at 10mph under the speed limit and catching every red light along the way, you can be stuck behind them for MILES.

Or break the law and pass them on a long, flat straightaway----like River Avenue.

[toosie]

Originally Posted by trotter_rej

I accept that some intersections have poor site lines due to parked cars, trees, topography, etc., and not everyone has the same definition for when there is enough room to safely make the right on red. But if the cross-street is deserted and the site lines are clear and the person in front of me doesn't turn on red, there will be some serious eye-rolling going on in my car .

By the same token, if a driver chooses to drive below the legal limit, IMO it is not rude or aggressive for another driver to pass them if it is legal and safe to do so, even on a two-lane road that is marked for passing.

Absolutely! Eye-rolling likely would ensue for most of us LOL. That's acceptable - leaning on the horn, making rude gestures, shouting obscenities - not so much.

Agree with you about passing when someone is going under the legal limit also - hell, even when over the legal limit. There are ways to pass someone and get where you're going without being a jerk about it, though. Some posters made it sound like they had the right to be an ass just because other drivers are less skilled or make different choices than they would.

[LiveinPA]

One strange thing about Pittsburgh that I could never figure out is that people seem to take legal passing as some sort of an insult. On some of the rare roads in the area that are one lane but allow passing, I've passed people only to have them speed up, flip me off and honk at me. This has happened more than once. People will also expect you to sit behind them for miles while they drive 15 under the limit.

In the West I was surprised to see people will pull to the side and wave you around if they want to drive slower. Not always, but way moreso than in Pgh.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by LiveinPA

One strange thing about Pittsburgh that I could never figure out is that people seem to take legal passing as some sort of an insult. On some of the rare roads in the area that are one lane but allow passing, I've passed people only to have them speed up, flip me off and honk at me. This has happened more than once. People will also expect you to sit behind them for miles while they drive 15 under the limit.

In the West I was surprised to see people will pull to the side and wave you around if they want to drive slower. Not always, but way moreso than in Pgh.

Good points!

My father, may he rest in peace, used to get angry if people passed him. (Native Western Pennsylvanian)

It was my DH from Nebraska who was the first person I knew to pull over and let people pass him.