Pittsburgh has an inferiority complex (Philadelphia, Indiana: high crime, job market, theater)

[Lionpainter]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

You just can't deny Pittsburgh's role in the history of America and its status as a Great American City. I don't care how much the population shrinks, or how high the crime rate goes, or how many neighborhoods are distressed. The overall picture of Pittsburgh is a strong one, and I don't think anyone should ever count this city out! But I think people have, and continue to do so. I think residents of Pittsburgh should be more positive about their city, have more hope in its future, and work to address their problems with the city instead of whining (or moving!). I think so many people have lived here for so long they can't see the forest for the trees. Do life-long residents realize how discouraging it is for newcomers when they talk down about their city, question why anybody would move here, and endlessly complain? How can it not be possible for some people to see the beauty in this place?

As someone who has lived here only a year, but long enough to have developed an understanding of the city and some of the people who live here, I just want to say:

1. Pittsburgh IS beautiful. The downtown, the historic homes, the cobblestone streets, the hills, the views, the rivers... from the gritty industrial warehouses and glorious decay to the Victorian mansions and restored buildings and everything in between....Pittsburgh has charm to spare...and where there isn't beauty, there is potential!

2. Pittsburgh is affordable! You don't have to be rich to live here. When I first moved here, I worked at Walmart. I was broke, but I still had enough to live on and was able to appreciate the city. Now I have a job in the field my degree is in. Pittsburgh gave me an opportunity. It has as many jobs as anywhere these days.

3. I think this city has been maligned in the media and by residents so long that it has become cool to hate on it. But I think what this city needs more than anything else is love. It needs people to fight for it, and I know people do every day otherwise it would never have survived so well.

So the next time you hear someone say something really negative or sarcastic about Pittsburgh I hope you will stand up for the city. We know the city deserves it.

Well said. It's my hometown! and it is a Great City. In the future it's only going to get better. GO PENS.

[Lionpainter]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

alleghenyangel,

I share your frustrations, but I also think it is important to understand that the steel bust was a really, really painful event for a lot of people in Pittsburgh. In that sense, Pittsburgh is basically recovering from a collective case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, except for those of us who moved to the city more recently.

That in no way contradicts your suggestion that people like us should stand up and defend the merits of the city. But at the same time, I think that defending the city actually includes demonstrating a little understanding for why some long-time residents are often still in a negative mood.

Finally, for what it is worth, although I also was born elsewhere, it has now been quite a while since I first came to Pittsburgh (in 1993). In some sense this optimists-versus-pessimists dynamic has been going on that entire time, but I also think the optimists have been steadily gaining ground. Indeed, periodically you see individual cases where people were down on the city, left for what they thought were greener pastures, and have come back with a renewed appreciation for what Pittsburgh offers.

In any event, I am fairly confident that civic pride will continue to grow in Pittsburgh. I just expect it to take some time yet before the effects of the steel bust have completely disappeared.

I'm a native Pittsburgher, yinzzer...I wouldn't trade Pittsburgh for any other city out there. Sure I love to see other places, but Pittsburgh is Home. It's a very unique place and it continues to lead the way on many fronts. Medical, technology, sports, (GOPENS) Arts, and recreation. And, yes the burg has had some rough times, but I think the people in Pittsburgh are kind people. Sure you got your bad apples and crab apples but we have some delicious apples too. Dinning, movies, theater, coffee shops, music, it's all here. And besides that we have three rivers, one runs north and an aquifer larger than the rivers. Stand up and shout.

[tjv189]

Well I guess I can chip in with my reasons on why Pittsburgh sucks, like some others have already done. Note that this is my opinion, my outlook on the city:

-dirty, polluted
-rude, unfriendly, narrow-minded residents
-high taxes and corrupt people running the city (Ravenstahl, I'm looking right at you)
-extremely poor roadways
-lack of unique things to do (every big city has sports teams, people)
-terrible job market for everything except medical field and banking (not much opportunity)
-the city is dying, losing population very fast
-weather is extremely poor most of the year (either too hot/humid or way too cold/miserable)
-living in the past
-city has no identity other than a sports team (that is pretty lame if you ask me)
-relatively high crime for a city of only 300,000 people
-city is crowded for only having 300,000 people
-young population is moving away, so Pittsburgh can't keep any educated young people there

That's what comes to mind off the top of my head. Let's face it, Pittsburgh is a pretty sorry place to be guys. Anyone who thinks otherwise was either born there and lived there all their lives, or they just don't get around much. I used to travel quite a bit in a previous job I had, and I can say with all honesty, there are very few places in the US as depressing and lame as Pittsburgh is.

When a football team is the main attraction in your city, that should be a red flag that the place lacks anything fun or unique to do. That is lame if the 'Stillers' or 'Pens' is all Pittsburgh has to be proud of. I know I can't wait to get out of this area, like the many other young people I know. So with all the reasons I stated above of why Pittsburgh sucks, is it any surprise some people here might have a negative opinion of the city? I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I'm just stating why I think Pittsburgh sucks.

What makes me even more angry about Pittsburgh is the people who think it is the greatest place ever, when it is clearly not. If the people that live there would actually realize the city's faults, maybe they could work to make it better. But until then, it will remain the same.

[ctoocheck]

tjv189, I am sorry about your poor experiences.

maybe you just have to find some cooler friends to make them funner ;-)


(I would take the time to go through all the points, but that is just far too much work for the weekend.)

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by tjv189

Well I guess I can chip in with my reasons on why Pittsburgh sucks, like some others have already done. Note that this is my opinion, my outlook on the city:

-dirty, polluted
-rude, unfriendly, narrow-minded residents
-high taxes and corrupt people running the city (Ravenstahl, I'm looking right at you)
-extremely poor roadways
-lack of unique things to do (every big city has sports teams, people)
-terrible job market for everything except medical field and banking (not much opportunity)
-the city is dying, losing population very fast
-weather is extremely poor most of the year (either too hot/humid or way too cold/miserable)
-living in the past
-city has no identity other than a sports team (that is pretty lame if you ask me)
-relatively high crime for a city of only 300,000 people
-city is crowded for only having 300,000 people
-young population is moving away, so Pittsburgh can't keep any educated young people there

That's what comes to mind off the top of my head. Let's face it, Pittsburgh is a pretty sorry place to be guys. Anyone who thinks otherwise was either born there and lived there all their lives, or they just don't get around much. I used to travel quite a bit in a previous job I had, and I can say with all honesty, there are very few places in the US as depressing and lame as Pittsburgh is.

When a football team is the main attraction in your city, that should be a red flag that the place lacks anything fun or unique to do. That is lame if the 'Stillers' or 'Pens' is all Pittsburgh has to be proud of. I know I can't wait to get out of this area, like the many other young people I know. So with all the reasons I stated above of why Pittsburgh sucks, is it any surprise some people here might have a negative opinion of the city? I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I'm just stating why I think Pittsburgh sucks.

What makes me even more angry about Pittsburgh is the people who think it is the greatest place ever, when it is clearly not. If the people that live there would actually realize the city's faults, maybe they could work to make it better. But until then, it will remain the same.

I respect your opinion, but how can you say that Pittsburgh does not have "unique things to do."? No, I am not one of the so called "narrow minded" and think that sports is everything either. How is Pittsburgh's weather any more humid or colder than other northeastern cities? What is your idea of a "cool city" that has none of the Pittsburgh drawbacks that you listed and at the same time has every attribute that Pittsburgh lacks? Give us examples so when can do a comparison. Where is this Utopia? I know it is not Pittsburgh, but where is the perfect city? Are we to accept anything that you blurt out without examples of other cities for comparison? Sure, some cities do outshine Pittsburgh in certain categories. Listening to you, we are to assume Pittsburgh is the worst big city in all categories that matter. The data says otherwise. Yes, I know "That is just my opinion you narrow minded Yinzer!"

[ditchdigger]

You have to wonder about somebody who joins a forum one day, and for their first post goes to the Pittsburgh section to post a message that says "Pittsburgh sucks".

I smell a troll.

[ctoocheck]

I smell a troll.

Maybe he is using reverse psychology, trying to get us to see that we do truly live in a wonderful place by affording us the opportunity to find fault in the common complaints whiny bitches have about our fair city ... ? :-p

[tjv189]

Nope, I'm still here guys.

Even though I did just join the forum today, I have lived in the Pittsburgh area all my life and had time to observe the positives and the negatives of the area. To me, the negatives far outweigh the positives in my opinion.

And to the person that said I was trolling, why don't you at least try to prove me wrong and name some good reasons on why Pittsburgh doesn't suck? I made it clear that this was my opinion, and rather than just flat out saying it sucks I gave several reasons on why I think it sucks. So how about you give some reasons why it doesn't? I'm willing to listen.

And I'm not just going to say, "I don't care what you think you narrow-minded yinzer", because that is a response similar to what several Pittsburghers give me when I tell them I don't like their city. They usually fire back with some ad homenim arguments and attack me rather than my side of the argument.

And to the person that said for me to name a city that is better and give examples why, well I just got back from Fort Worth, TX not too long ago, and since its fresh in my mind, I can use it as an example. The place is booming. There is a ton of growth, and a ton of opportunity for almost any qualified professional. My relative who lives there has changed jobs 3 times in the last 2 years and was able to find a new job within a week or so. I'm not condoning changing jobs often or saying that is a good thing, but my point is that you have that option to find something better quickly in a place like that because there is so much opportunity and growth going on, unlike in Pittsburgh. And there are unique things to do there. I had never been to a dude ranch before I was in the area, and it was nice. There are rodeos all over the place if you are into that kind of thing. There were a lot of unique museums and landmarks to see. I'm not saying Pittsburgh has absolutely nothing to do, but the place just strikes me as bland (my opinion).

The people there just didn't seem to have that "western PA attitude" that they are the best thing since sliced bread. You could get around Fort Worth very easily because it has a logical network of roadways. You didn't have to go right through downtown to get from one end of the city to the other, like you do in Pittsburgh. I'm not saying Fort Worth is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but compared to Pittsburgh it is great. Everything just looks so new.....everything from the houses to the ranches outside the city to the restaurants in the city. Everything around Pittsburgh (and western PA in general) just looks so old and dilapidated. And as you might have guessed, the weather was pretty nice and it usually is year round with the exception of some severe storms here and there. PA has 6 month winters on the other hand.

So that is one example. But rather than comparing other cities to Pittsburgh, I just find it to be a depressing place to be. Most people I know there don't do anything but go to the bars on the south side every weekend and get drunk. When I ask them why, they usually just say, "What else is there to do?"

So if you like Pittsburgh, fine, I know I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm not trying to. But what I am saying is that I hate it for the reasons I gave in the previous post, and I don't care to ever be in that city. That's my opinion of the place. What I don't like is people who live there and haven't experienced many of the other nice places in the US, and have the nerve to say Pittsburgh is great. Those people need to get around more because they are missing out on quite a bit.

[tjv189]

This is an ad homenim argument, as I was referring to. You are attacking the person making a claim rather than the claim itself. If you think Pittsburgh is a 'wonderful' place as you say, why don't you give some good reasons why, without committing yet another logical fallacy? I'm willing to listen. But you won't change my opinion about the place, just like I won't change yours either.

[tjv189]

nuwaver88, thanks for at least respecting my opinion, like some others fail to do. I tried to answer your questions in my other post. But you state that the data says otherwise, that Pittsburgh isn't a rat hole. Sure there is one poll that said it is a very livable city (based on its lower standard of living), but there are other polls that say it is one of the most depressed cities in America, and that it is one of the most polluted cities in America. So these bits of data suggest that it is indeed a sorry place to be. Take a look at these if you think I'm making this stuff up:

Links: America's Happiest and Most Depressed Cities [Archive] - GreekChat.com Forums

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Wea...4758772&page=1