Midwest Regional Rail Initiative (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: 2011, live in, cost)

[pman]

I worry that Biehler is out of touch, as he keeps referring to the dead SVM project which as been replaced with the www.r6extension.com
Back in 2004 the state piad for a study on what would be required to get 3 round trips at 5.5 hours each between Philly and Pitt (which I'm sure is what he's dusting off). In no way should the scranton commuter service qualify for high speed rail funds. If it does, it means high speed rail is a joke. this is a commuter service that's to run between jersey city and scranton. Obviously further improvements to the Keystone corridor will qualify and will also benefit the Pitt-Philly route. At some point it may be worth changing locomotives in harrisburg. Lastly, the state does need to start investigating what a real HSR train would look like and what it will eventually take to shorten the trip through the alleghenies for both freight and passenger.

[JoeLeaphorn]

I wouldn't put much faith in Biehler. He was not much of supporter of rail when he was with PAT (except for the North Shore Connector which is way over budget and only because the Feds were gonna pay for that or nothing).

He has spoken out against passenger rail projects as requiring costly subsidies and only got on board the PA HSR bandwagon when Obama announced $13 billion in HSR stimulus which did not require a state match.

Doesn't seem too inventive to me.

[BrianTH]

I'm not suggesting putting much faith in Biehler in particular, of course. It is really just a question of whether his staff can put together some reasonable proposals in light of the guidance which just came out.

[pman]

Worse than that, I saw a quote saying he wasn't interested in ANY of the funds when it was first announced, he's since changed his tune which leads me to believe the governor probably slapped him upside the head.
devil is in the details

Transit would receive about 22% of the funding in the new $450 billion bill, compared to 18% in SAFETEA-LU, the last major piece of transportation legislation. The draft outline did not specify how that money would be distributed to the various transit programs....Yet, the bill’s real coup is the creation of a new Office of Intermodalism, which would be charged with implementing projects from a mode-neutral perspective...The new office’s Metropolitan Mobility and Access program would evaluate metropolitan area projects based on population and time travel delay and establish multi-year grant agreements similar to those currently provided under the New Start capital grants process. This program could make it far easier for metropolitan areas to focus their spending on improving transit without having to rely on the states to approve or reject projects from the state perspective, which is usually roads-oriented. Importantly, projects would be judged on their merits, something never done for road projects today; this may give transit projects a comparative advantage...
The bill also includes a mammoth $50 billion for high-speed rail...the next six years...

the transport politic

[JoeLeaphorn]

For those still interested in this discussion, this pretty much sums up the problem with the Keystone Corridor

Pittsburgh slow to battle for high-speed rail lines

"Pennsylvania has been caught in a situation where there's a great opportunity and it's something that we aren't prepared for. At this point, it's not clear who's in charge of all of this, if anybody," Henry Posner said in an interview.

Even Ohio is ahead of Pennsylvania when it comes to planning high-speed rail to Pittsburgh.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Someone posted the question as to why Rendell should be interested in a Pittsburgh to Cleveland HSR.

Perhaps if he were thinking along the lines of these governors:

www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-mo-high-speedrail,0,5950074.story

"In April, [Govs] Nixon [(Missouri)] and Quinn [(Illinois)] -- along with the governors of Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Wisconsin, and Chicago Mayor Richard Daley -- wrote to U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, pointing out work dating back to the mid-1990s to bring high-speed rail to the Midwest. They said they have been seeking upgrades including 110-mph service, greater frequency and more reliable trains. "

[BrianTH]

The good news from that article is that a couple of our Representatives (Altmire and Shuster) appear to be on the case. It does sound like contrary to my initial suggestion, the Pittsburgh-Cleveland link may be moved up in priority, which is fine. Again, I just hope the state is at least making use of the current opportunity to get planning support, so it can get a Pittsburgh-Harrisburg proposal submitted down the road.

[JoeLeaphorn]

The Pittsburgh-Cleveland line would, likely, add New Castle, Youngstown and Lordstown, and the acquisition and development costs are relatively low (about $30 million) since it uses existing rights of way.

My point in stressing this is that tying Pittsburgh to the Midwest initiative, which has been in the planning process for decades, makes it MORE attractive to complete the Keystone Corridor since Pittsburgh would no longer be the endpoint.

There is no doubt in my mind that in the long term, Pittsburgh-Philly will get done. By 2020, oil could top $300/barrel gasoline prices $15/gallon (along with huge increases in jet fuel). It would be nice if we didn't wait for this (which will result in huge increases in construction costs), to develop alternative modes of travel.

[pman]

Originally Posted by JoeLeaphorn

There is no doubt in my mind that in the long term, Pittsburgh-Philly will get done. By 2020, oil could top $300/barrel gasoline prices $15/gallon (along with huge increases in jet fuel). It would be nice if we didn't wait for this (which will result in huge increases in construction costs), to develop alternative modes of travel.

And my point is that the Governor of PENNSYLVANIA should be quite concerned with Pennslvania. Pittsburgh should be the rail hub to the midwest but if we're not careful, Ohio is going to make it Cleveland or columbus. That said, he says "hundreds of millions" like that's some sort of shock. All these plans are going to cost at least that. Ohio's 3C plan is quite expensive and really isn't high speed at all. I'd venture to say that the whole Cleveland to Philadelphia segment would be eligible, note, nowhere is there mention of DC. In fact, should that happen, 'd bet Amtrak would route it's Chicago trains via Penn. there's be no need for the Lake Shore and Capitol Limited which could run as one train to Philadelphia where it could be broken in two, and still beat the travel time of the Capitol Limited while adding major ridership centers.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Sure the governor of Pennsylvania should be concerned with Pennsylvania.

But go to the Ohio Rail Development Commission's web site and look at the Ohio Hub map. You'll see TWO routes to Pittsburgh (Cleveland and Columbus).

Now, go to the PennDOT Keystone Line web site. There is NOTHING West of Harrisburg.

So who is thinking of Pittsburgh? We weren't even on PennDOTs passenger rail map until the HSR stimulus package was announced, in fact we still aren't and Biehler will only state that he is going to "dust off" a few old plans. Dust off? What does that tell you?

Ohio and the MRRI have included Pittsburgh as the Eastern-most city in their plans for years. It seems that they think more of Pittsburgh than Harrisburg does.