if your not from Pittsburgh you never fit in? (college, quality of life)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Thanks for doing that. I will say, that while Omaha has several colleges, it is not the "college town" that Pittsburgh is, which I think is what attracts the PhDs to Pgh.

And that's a bad thing?!?!?! Regardless, Pittsburgh attracts more associates and bachelors too.

[claremarie]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by claremarie
What Pittsburgh seems to lack are highly motivated (whether or not highly educated) immigrant entrepreneurs who will start the sort of small businesses that provide employment for a lot of other people, both natives and immigrants.
That might be the result of the necessity to have work or student visa to live in the United States."

Well, I'm thinking about the folks who are already living in this country, either as naturalized citizens or legal permanent residents. Pittsburgh doesn't seem able to attract them, although they are well-established in cities across the country. And they are not all from Mexico. Virtually every dry cleaning establishment in northern Virginia is owned by Koreans, for example. Indians seem to run many convenience stores. There are lots of Vietnamese barbers and nail salon owners in northern Virginia as well.
And I disagree that Pittsburgh has "enough" blue-collar workers. What is wrong with some healthy competition?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Hopes

And that's a bad thing?!?!?! Regardless, Pittsburgh attracts more associates and bachelors too.

Did I say it was bad? I was giving a reason for the discrepancy.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

It is very stereotypical to assume that immigrants are most suited for such jobs as landscaping, housecleaning and child care. Since most unskilled immigrants are from Mexico and other central American countries, there is an element of racism there, too.

First, those aren't the only jobs we mentioned. Second, we are broadly describing jobs which require relatively little in the way of education or training, and I would again maintain it isn't racist or stereotyping to note that relatively low-skilled/low-education people are best suited for such jobs. Again, that is true of immigrants or native born or whomever fits that description.

The concern about depressing wages b/c someone is willing to do it for less is definitely labor-union talk. If someone will do the job for less, that's a matter between employer and employee (as long as they are paying minimum wage).

First, just because a union representative says something doesn't mean it isn't true. Second, again, labor markets are subject to supply and demand, just like any other market. Third, that means an influx of new labor leading to an oversupplied labor market will cause lower wages and higher unemployment.

Now, that effect may well be in the interests of both the employer and an individual employee, if that individual employee is coming from somewhere where the labor markets are even more oversupplied. But it is going to be to the disadvantage of the workers who were present before the influx of new labor. Again, this is all just basic economics.

Now if you were thinking nationally or even globally, you might not care--as long as people were moving from worse labor conditions to better labor conditions, the net economic effect should be positive. But if you are thinking locally, then the net economic effect can indeed be negative. Which is what we have been saying.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I didn't say they were lowly occupations, I said they weren't the only occupations suitable for unskilled immigrants.

You accused me of being racist for simply not including all occupations suitable for immigrants, as if the ones I listed were lower level than the ones you provided. Twist it all you want, but you're attacking people for being racist without any foundation whatsoever.

Regardless, the most important point is that Pittsburgh's population meets the demands for these occupations. As a result, there is no need at this time for unskilled/uneducated immigrants in Pittsburgh at this time.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by claremarie

"Quote:
Originally Posted by claremarie
What Pittsburgh seems to lack are highly motivated (whether or not highly educated) immigrant entrepreneurs who will start the sort of small businesses that provide employment for a lot of other people, both natives and immigrants.
That might be the result of the necessity to have work or student visa to live in the United States."

Well, I'm thinking about the folks who are already living in this country, either as naturalized citizens or legal permanent residents. Pittsburgh doesn't seem able to attract them, although they are well-established in cities across the country. And they are not all from Mexico. Virtually every dry cleaning establishment in northern Virginia is owned by Koreans, for example. Indians seem to run many convenience stores. There are lots of Vietnamese barbers and nail salon owners in northern Virginia as well.
And I disagree that Pittsburgh has "enough" blue-collar workers. What is wrong with some healthy competition?

This isn't the problem some of us have. The problem many on the forum see are unskilled immigrants taking away jobs from the blue collar population of Pittsburgh. And this thread has gone a little sour and personal IMO. It also seems the more pro immigrant people in the thread are ex pittsburghers, while the more low immigration people are living in Pittsburgh.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by claremarie

Well, I'm thinking about the folks who are already living in this country, either as naturalized citizens or legal permanent residents. Pittsburgh doesn't seem able to attract them, although they are well-established in cities across the country.

I think it's because those areas of the country initially attract the refugee immigrants. They save and aspire to open businesses. But they initially settled in an area where there was a large refugee population. Pittsburgh doesn't attract that type of population because there isn't work available for them here. I agree that small businesses owned by foreign immigrants would be great for Pittsburgh. But that type of growth is a slow process since Pittsburgh doesn't initially attract a large refugee population to begin with. At least, that's what I think might be the reason.

Originally Posted by claremarie

Indians seem to run many convenience stores.

Have you been to Pittsburgh's convenience stores lately? Most of the privately owned convenience stores are mostly owned by Indians here.

Originally Posted by claremarie

There are lots of Vietnamese barbers and nail salon owners in northern Virginia as well.

Many of the nail salons in Pittsburgh are Asian owned.

Originally Posted by claremarie

And I disagree that Pittsburgh has "enough" blue-collar workers. What is wrong with some healthy competition?

There can't really be a competition when all the jobs are already filled by the existing population. Why would an employer hire someone who doesn't speak English over a local person who does speak English? It won't happen until there is a shortage of English speaking candidates.

[BrianTH]

On the subject of entrepreneurs, I'm not sure it is true we don't have foreign born entrepreneurs, once you include all industries. We may have fewer foreign born entrepreneurs in certain service sectors, but again in large part that would be because with a roughly flat population, we just don't have a lot of new opportunities in those sectors in general.

As for "competition" for jobs, generally what you really want is a rough match between supply and demand in a given field. That means there is still active competition for jobs, but you aren't going to get a lot of involuntary unemployment. And the point we are making is that in the lower-skilled job fields, we aren't undersupplied--indeed, if anything we might still be a bit oversupplied.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

First, those aren't the only jobs we mentioned.

Originally Posted by Hopes

True. But that doesn't make us racist simply because we didn't list all low level jobs that don't require an education. .

So this is another "us" vs "them" thread?

Secondly, I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist. I said I detected an element of racism in these discussions, b/c most unskilled workers are immigrants from Central America, Mexico in particular. Living where I do, people are very conscious of the racism issue towards Hispanics. Kids get all sorts of sensitivity training in school to NOT think of all immigrants as house cleaners and construction workers, two major stereotypes. Some adults get the same type of training at their workplaces. I know I did.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

So this is another "us" vs "them" thread?

You and Clairmarie made it that way by attacking us.

Originally Posted by Katiana

Secondly, I didn't accuse anyone of being a racist. I said I detected an element of racism in these discussions, b/c most unskilled workers are immigrants from Central America, Mexico in particular.

That's the same as accusing someone of racism. Semantics.