In 2009...Pittsburgh has nothing to offer people aged 18-45 (Dormont: renting, movies)

[BrianTH]

I rather like PPG. In part that is because it was inspired by some local landmarks (e.g., the Allegheny County Courthouse and the Cathedral of Learning), and it was also designed to showcase the products of a long-standing local company. So in that sense it is a somewhat organic extension of the region.

Indeed, although its contemporaries the Mellon Center and the Oxford Centre are not bad, I prefer PPG for these reasons. From this era I also like the CNG Tower (now EQT Plaza), again because it was heavily influenced by some of the Art Deco buildings Downtown (Gulf, Koppers, Grant, and so forth).

Anyway, we've had a few new landmark buildings Downtown a decade since WWII (except for in the 1990s). That sort of pace is consistent with a slow growth model, and in fact has helped create the organic and eclectic nature of Downtown.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JEB77

What cities are actually able to pull off the "progressive, modest growth" you envision?

I can't speak for the other poster, but I would suggest cities like Boston, New York, Milwaukee, and so on have gotten on a healthy slow growth path.

[Geeo]

Other slow and moderate growth cities I can think of are Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Columbus, Raleigh, Cincinnatti. Growing but not booming. Not a bad situation to be in. I hope that Pittsburgh follows that model, and I think it's starting to.

[Fiddlehead]

Brian, Geeo:

Thanks for the examples. I am only marginally familiar with Minneapolis, but I think it did get a bit bubbly of late.

My impression was that Boston has grown, or perhaps I am thinking of real estate, which is comparable in unaffordability to the San Francisco Bay Area. Not sure if real estate prices running away from wages is really the same as rampant growth, though. May just be a function of the cache of certain locales, and folks are willing to pay a relative premium. Or?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

My impression was that Boston has grown, or perhaps I am thinking of real estate, which is comparable in unaffordability to the San Francisco Bay Area. Not sure if real estate prices running away from wages is really the same as rampant growth, though. May just be a function of the cache of certain locales, and folks are willing to pay a relative premium. Or?

Boston had slow population growth in the 2000s, but it also did in fact participate a bit in the bubble, and in fact hasn't entirely come back down to its 1990s price-to-income levels yet (as of 2008). San Franciso has gone through the same trends overall, but it consistently has more expensive housing than Boston by this measure.

So thinking about Pittsburgh--assuming we have slow population growth, at some point in the future we will likely finally exhaust our excess housing stock and residential neighborhood capacity, at which point we might see price-to-income levels start creeping up. Pittsburgh might also end up more exposed to a similar national bubble in such circumstances, although hopefully a repeat of that sort of thing is not very likely in the near future.

[L7Plan9]

Originally Posted by Geeo

Other slow and moderate growth cities I can think of are Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Columbus, Raleigh, Cincinnatti. Growing but not booming. Not a bad situation to be in. I hope that Pittsburgh follows that model, and I think it's starting to.

I believe Raliegh was "booming", but not anymore (as with so many other "booming" cities). I personally find the "booming" cities to be the most boring of them all. Very little character can be found...just a bunch of minivans, soccer moms, and subdivisions.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by L7Plan9

I believe Raliegh was "booming", but not anymore (as with so many other "booming" cities). I personally find the "booming" cities to be the most boring of them all. Very little character can be found...just a bunch of minivans, soccer moms, and subdivisions.

According to this census spreadsheet, Raleigh grew quickly throughout the decade, so it's not an example of moderate growth. It actually has been an interesting decade in terms of the number of cities that began to gain residents after decades of declining population.

Pittsburgh continued to register population losses year after year, although it looks like the rate of decline has slowed, so perhaps the city is poised now for growth. If cities like Louisville and St. Louis can experience some modest population growth, then one would think Pittsburgh could as well - particulary with its good universities and attractive older housing stock.

http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/...EST2008-01.csv

[Fiddlehead]

Great Data! It is fascinating to see where people want to move and leave. The fastest growth is in the east is in North Carolina, which makes sense if the economy has been good and housing sane, and the desert towns of the Southwest. In the latter case, it was either speculators buying things up or poor saps who have tethered themselves with horrendous commutes in the heat, or both.

The desert locales and the associated lifestyles do not seem to warrant the higher prices to me. I believe folks are tiring of the sunbelt sprawl and may turn en masse to head your way. I know a big target for Californians has been Missouri, particularly Columbia area, because of the affordable homes and schools. It had a big rise (+19.2%).

I saw New Orleans was the biggest loser of people, for obvious reasons. Anyone know a New Orleans person who came the burgh and stayed?

[MarqueseGilmore]

Originally Posted by IheartRobots

Don't get me started on the singles scene here...

As an electronic dance DJ, I'm often frustrated at how little there is to do for young people in this city. When I was younger, there were numerous clubs to go to, and now all of them are closed. I constantly see listings for hot concerts and events in the US, and 0 of them are in Pittsburgh.

I honestly don't see any reason to stay here anymore. It's just a cycle of watching stuff close down to be replaced by another law office (how many of these do we really need? I know Pittsburgh ranks up there for legal representation for corporations, but it seems there are more lawyers than actual cases to be filled!), some corny corporate retail spot like starbucks, or absolutely nothing. I'm sick and tired of looking at it and seeing the masses of energetic young people seemingly confused as what to do with themselves in this city. I feel their despair and boredom as i was once there in there shoes, but in a different time.

On top of that, there are too many shady and just unprofessional people running things here. I hear so many stories about promoters holding out on money for artists shows, artists taking promoters money and leaving without even giving a performance, establishments that have closed due to starting on drug money, egotistical club owners, and other horro stories. To top it off too, many events and business ventures that suceed in other cities and fail here due to the lack of people who would go to these shows, poor or no promotion, and the fact that the city is so small that no one even wants to go out to a show at the same spot for the 100th time.

The constant construction around here just makes a city that is old and crumbling look even worse to outsiders.

The south side bar scene is the only thing to do, but it's not cutting edge or different to same the least. DJs play songs from 5-10 years ago and seem to have very little of an awareness of new music. It's 190% superficial...and it seems everyone involved in that scene drinks so damn hard that it's almost bordering on disturbing....like what's the point? Only to do it again the next day.

My advice if you are an artist, musician, DJ, etc. Move. Out. Of Pittsburgh....and never come back. Anybody who says otherwise is just out of touch with what it is like to be a young adult in the US in the internet era. Sorry to say this, but everyone who has told me that Pittsburgh is some sort of untapped goldmine just seems very out of touch with what someone like myself is into and want for themselves. I just don't see what they are talking about, and even when I try to think about all of the good things about pittsburgh in it's present state....i just can't.

Most of the time I just stay in my house and work on music and art because this city is so boring!!!!!!!!!! And to top it off, it seems almost impossible to find a decent job to make money to move somewhere else, so people are forced to leave on scant funds or wallow in the sea of making slightly above minimum wage.

Honestly, I can see why Andy Warhol left Pittsburgh now.

I agree.......

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by MarqueseGilmore

I agree.......

I don't.