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Old 09-25-2009, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Hell with the lid off, baby!
2,197 posts, read 3,842,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Great article!

I will add that I think the mindset of Pittsburghers is one reason Pittsburgh is weathering this recession so well.
Excellent point and perception. I've read a few articles this morning touching on that, and they also discuss that in the Fineman video too.
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:54 AM
 
7,360 posts, read 6,972,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugdogmaster View Post
Who started the Lawrenceville problems? Not the police officers.

Video: Protesters clash with police
i'm not sure how that video shows who "started the problems". although i am sure that the first violent/disruptive actions were taken by the protesters.

my point is though, if the police had just escorted the march instead of trying to stop it right off the bat, these problems would probably have been avoided, there would have been a peaceful march, and that would have been it. in other cities, similar unpermitted marches have gone off without a hitch when allowed to continue.

i'm not defending the actions of people who destroyed property or did things that could have hurt the police or anyone else, but the police's actions created a situation where those idiots had an excuse to go wild. it doesn't absolve the protesters who broke the law of responsibility, but the situation could have been avoided had the police acted differently.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Hell with the lid off, baby!
2,197 posts, read 3,842,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groar View Post

my point is though, if the police had just escorted the march instead of trying to stop it right off the bat, these problems would probably have been avoided, there would have been a peaceful march, and that would have been it. in other cities, similar unpermitted marches have gone off without a hitch when allowed to continue.
It wasn't stopped right off the bat, they were allowed to march, unpermitted, for several blocks. These are the folks that zig-zagged all through Lawrenceville and Bloomfield all afternoon breaking crap.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Hell with the lid off, baby!
2,197 posts, read 3,842,846 times
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It's been asked by several of these anarchist protester "leaders" to stop all individual activity in the city by 11:30am today. My not-so educated guess tells me that they plan to mix in with the large permitted march scheduled to take place at noon, and causing major problems. Sneaky little buggers!
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugdogmaster View Post
It wasn't stopped right off the bat, they were allowed to march, unpermitted, for several blocks. These are the folks that zig-zagged all through Lawrenceville and Bloomfield all afternoon breaking crap.
ok it was stopped after several blocks. to me, that's right off the bat. but there was no violence or property destruction of any kind until the police blocked the way.

again, i'm not defending what happened, just saying it could have been avoided. i don't see why the police couldn't have escorted them through the strip and into the permitted protest area by the convention center.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Hell with the lid off, baby!
2,197 posts, read 3,842,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groar View Post
i don't see why the police couldn't have escorted them through the strip and into the permitted protest area by the convention center.
Because that was the point of the march Besides, do you think a group of true anarchists would have stopped at that perimeter fence around the convention center? No.... it would have gotten just as violent down there.

Edit: Now that I think about it, letting it get violent there may have been the better choice. At least then they already would have been herded in.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,385 posts, read 1,271,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugdogmaster View Post
Who started the Lawrenceville problems? Not the police officers.

Video: Protesters clash with police
You know what made me mad watching this video? The stupid ass little punks who are knocking over individual garbage cans in front of people's houses? This advances a cause, how exactly? I mean I think breaking a big corporation's window is silly, but I can see the symbolism in that. Still think it's dumb and counter-productive, but okay. But knocking over some poor slub's garbage can? Yeah, that'll change the world.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Hell with the lid off, baby!
2,197 posts, read 3,842,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinare View Post
You know what made me mad watching this video? The stupid ass little punks who are knocking over individual garbage cans in front of people's houses? This advances a cause, how exactly? I mean I think breaking a big corporation's window is silly, but I can see the symbolism in that. Still think it's dumb and counter-productive, but okay. But knocking over some poor slub's garbage can? Yeah, that'll change the world.
Ya, some girl in an another video I saw tried to say it was just one garbage can and they picked it right back up.....pfft!
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:36 AM
 
7,360 posts, read 6,972,087 times
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tinare - agreed, that was dumb. it really makes me mad when protesters attack individual people or their property. hell it makes me mad when they do any of that stuff; it just serves no purpose except to turn regular people against the protesters (and rightly so) and make them ignore whatever message the protesters have. but above all, private citizens should NOT have anything to fear from protesters. the fact that they do is partly due to a few really crazy/stupid people among the protesters, and partly due to a self-fulfilling prophecy created by massive over-escalation and over-reaction on the part of police against the protesters.

the line on the news "the police did such a great job, this could have been much more violent" really irritates me. yeah, once things got crazy, the police did do things to prevent further violence, to some extent. but there also could have been less violence had they not cracked down unnecessarily on what had up until then been a peaceful march.
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:17 AM
 
41,740 posts, read 46,377,789 times
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The police had already disrupted the march by the time the punks started tipping over people's garbage cans. Notice they were on side streets?

I think things would have been much calmer if the police had simply permitted to continue the march.

Breaking 2000 people up into small groups throughout the east end was unwise.
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