Anyone in Pittsburgh familiar with Boston? (Washington, Sewickley: leasing, health insurance, mortgage)

[iwonderwhy2124]

I have a friend who lives in Belmont. It is about a ten minute ride to Cambridge (where Harvard is) and about a 15 minute ride to downtown Boston (if there is no traffic). He pays $1,500 a month for a so-so apartment. The same apartment in the Pittsburgh Metropolitan area would be $750. Even a normal looking house up there goes for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It is insane. You have to be at least highly upper-middle class to live in Eastern Massachussetts.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JoeLeaphorn

And yet Boston is much more populous. Go figure.

It did have about a 100 year head start.

So why is Pittsburgh still losing population? Obviously there is more to it than cost.

I'm not sure it still is losing population, but it was losing population recently largely because of the echoing effects of the contraction of the steel industry.

Depends upon how long you live in your house doesn't it? In about 22.5 years I'll have paid the price of my house in property taxes. I could live in a house almost 7 more years before saying the same thing in Boston.

Again, the fact you have to pay much more for an equivalent house in Boston is cold comfort for also having to pay more in property taxes.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So again, Boston pay is in fact higher, but not enough higher to make up for the much higher cost of living.

What it "makes up" for has a lot to do with your personal preferences, doesn't it? I have a couple of good reasons for staying in Pittsburgh but those were self created. Many of the reasons that I came here, originally, such as a vibrant downtown night life, large, undisturbed green spaces, etc., are no longer here.

In Boston I rarely used a car. So while gasoline might have cost me more, I had more discretionary income because I rarely used it. I, also, rarely used parking. So even if parking was more expensive, I didn't need it so, to me, the fact that parking in Pittsburgh was cheaper was irrelevant. Hotel rooms cost more in Boston than Pittsburgh. I rarely used those. Wine was, and is, cheaper in Boston. I use wine a lot so when I pay $9.99/bottle (with a $2.00 discount) in Pittsburgh for a bottle that I could get for $5.99 (and an additional 10% off for a case), it hits my pocketbook.

As you well know, cost of living indices get different results depending upon the methods used to calculate them. Simply adding up the prices for common goods and services and then comparing them does not account for the differences in behavior which is observed in the real world.

So, to return to my point, overall I found it cheaper to do the things that I most commonly did when I lived in Boston, though it would be more expensive to live the way that I live, now, there.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Again, the fact you have to pay much more for an equivalent house in Boston is cold comfort for also having to pay more in property taxes.

Sorry, but I disagree. Property taxes obviously weigh heavily on a consumer's decision to purchase a house, otherwise, they would be included in sale information. If I know that over the lifetime of my house, I have to budget a certain extra amount than I would living somewhere else, that goes into my calculation as to whether I can afford the house in the same way as does the interest rate on the mortgage.

In addition, once Allegheny County is finally forced by a judge to implement a reassessment, I think a lot of people are gonna find out just how important is the tax rate. Due to all of the new construction since 2002, I would venture to say that most people, especially younger homeowners, are likely paying far less in taxes than they will be.

[Hopes]

Are you moving from Pittsburgh soon, JoeLeaphorn? Or are you just another hater who can't leave because Pittsburgh is the only place you can find a job?

[Copanut]

I think Mr. Leaphorn is anything but a hater of Pittsburgh. He's merely comparing the two cities having lived in both.

[SewickleyPA]

Originally Posted by JoeLeaphorn

What it "makes up" for has a lot to do with your personal preferences, doesn't it? I have a couple of good reasons for staying in Pittsburgh but those were self created. Many of the reasons that I came here, originally, such as a vibrant downtown night life, large, undisturbed green spaces, etc., are no longer here.

Huh? Downtown was never a vibrant area, it only recently has been making strides in that area.

Also, what do you mean by there are no longer any "undisturbed green spaces"? You make it sound like they are turning all of parks into housing developements or industrial space, when in fact green spaces have been added to and improved on a continuous basis.

[JoeLeaphorn]

I don't hate Pittsburgh. But there is no comparison to Boston and certainly, saying that Pittsburgh is better than Boston on nothing more than a cost of living basis is ludicrous. And, I have said, before, I don't like the way that the politicians ignore the will of the people, morality and the law, e.g.,

* losing a referendum on additional tax funding for stadiums and then taking a slice of the RAD which was intended to fund culture and beautification ro pay for them because it wasn't a "new" tax.
* County Council proposing a referendum when the Home Rule Charter clearly states that a referendum can be proposed only by citizens and only if supported by a certain number of signatures.
* Failing to implement a system of reassessments which would bring equity to many lower income taxpayers who have been paying more than their fair share for almost a decade.
* Building a $450 milllion North Shore Connector because "if we don't spend the money, we'll lose it".
* Using Tax Increment Financing to support big box development of greenfields which simply parasitize existing municipalities' without bringing net revenue to the county.
* Using city vehicles for personal travel on non-city business.
* Attempting to sell the mineral rights to lands lying under the airport when Federal law requires Federal approval for that.
* The interim-Mayor failing to show leadership by not calling for a special election and, instead, assuming that he could complete his predecessor's term of office
* Using city and county owned property as well as privately held billboards financed with municipal taxes to prominently display an officeholder-candidate's name
* Failing to address via public transportation the congestion which affects Oakland, one of the largest economic generators in the region
* Pouring millions of taxpayer dollars into "economic development" efforts in downtown then selling the failed assets to private developers for pennies on the dollar.

You don't have to hate the region to wish for a more dynamic political climate in which there is not one-party rule and approaches are discussed and debated rather fait accompli. You don't take solace in the fact that "things could be worse somewhere else" to accept the incredible wasted money and effort on ill-conceived projects, taxpayer subsidies of millionaire club owners, selling North Shore land at well below market prices and taxpayer subsidized mountain topping of green spaces to put big box retailers on every corner.

It is the people that make Pittsburgh what it is. Not the buildings (many of which have been torn down), and not the politicians none of whom measure up to a David Lawrence. It is not the cost of living which is great for those who want to stay here (but doesn't seem to be causing a rush of people wanting to move here).

I stay because there are people here that I love and love to serve (including some on this list who, notwithstanding, question my motives or whether I can find a job). Oh and, yes, as a matter of fact, I get offers all of the time. But, as I have said, I have made some investments, here, and unless I get an offer that I can't refuse, I see no reason to leave. But it isn't as though I would be as attracted to come here as I was when I came. And having lived in other cities I see what Pittsburgh might become, if our politicians had any vision other than higher office.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by SewickleyPA

Huh? Downtown was never a vibrant area, it only recently has been making strides in that area.

You are obviously under 40. There used to be three major department stores in downtown and many smaller stores. These used to be open at night and shopping downtown during the holidays was far more fun than going out to the Monroeville Mall which was sterile. You used to be able to see movies in town. I did. The theatre district is certainly turning some things around but it still isn't as it was years ago. Go to Chicago's Magnificent Mile during Christmas and tell me what in Pittsburgh or Cleveland, compares.

Also, what do you mean by there are no longer any "undisturbed green spaces"? You make it sound like they are turning all of parks into housing developements or industrial space, when in fact green spaces have been added to and improved on a continuous basis.

I didn't say that there weren't any. What I said is that the misapplication of the term "blight" to allow green space to be developed via tax increment financing resulted in the destruction of valuable green space and the economic destruction of existing muncipalities. When I came here, Cranberry and North Fayette were, essentially, farmlands and woods.

The development of Mt. Nebo Pointe (and the the similar development on Home Depot Drive), were directly linked to the damage caused to the McCandless and Emsworth sewer systems following Hurricane Ivan because valueable woodlands and fields, which retained rainwater, were converted to parking lots which encouraged run-off.

You used to be able to fly over the County and not be able to tell exactly where you were because so much of the county was covered in trees. Now, you know exactly where you are (and as a licensed private pilot who has spent many hours in the skies over the region, I can tell you that the change has been profound).

Why do you think that Land Trusts have become necessary?

[Copanut]

I go up to Boston about every two years to visit a friend in Beverly. He sold his Maronda style piece of crap house last year for 650K. You'd be lucky to get 275 for it in Cranberry. While I was there we went over to the high school, what a dump, looked like something out of "Hoosiers". I'm not sure how they tax for education up there, but it's not via real estate.