Barnes and Noble closing. (Pittsburgh, Butler: homes, middle school, office)

[ditchdigger]

Reference "rebranding", and the migration of borders...

I earlier mentioned the Village of Shadyside. I don't know how familiar everyone is with that site. It borders Penn Ave, between the Giant Eagle and Riezenstein school (if that's still what its called), and sits roughly catty corner from Bakery Square. It's only accessible from the "Shadyside" side. I was there for the construction from the first shovelful of dirt to the last.

Around that time, somebody wrote a piece in the Pittsburgh Press that criticized it for "turning its back on the adjoining neighborhood" (roughly quoted.) I knew at the time that it wasn't Shadyside, and I kinda took offense at the negative implacations of it "turning its back on the adjoining neighborhood." At the time, it was somewhat of the frontier between the "nice" neighborhood of Shadyside, and the declining East Liberty business district and the public housing that had been built around it.

I don't know all the details of the deal between the city and the developers, but I do know that the infrastructure work (utilities, sewers, pavement, etc. ), as well as the home construction itself, was paid for by private funds, not public. They were able to sell high end, new construction there, and do it profitably.

Had that piece of ground not been "rebranded" as Shadyside, and distinguished/ separated itself so obviously from the area beyond it, I question whether it would have succeeded.

Part of what determines success or failure in the sort of development we're discussing is people's perceptions, so if a little creativity in naming helps to achieve a desireable result, I can't really criticise that.

[fleetiebelle]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

But street grids? We've got plenty!

They were just laid out by squirrels, is all.

[greg42]

Heh, that map posted is odd. Even Mosites says the Whole Foods and such Eastside development is in East Liberty, but the city is drawing the Shadyside boundary on Centre. I know that can't be historically right, although I only moved here in 1991 and only paid close attention to this more recently.

At this point I'd probably consider living in the area around these things, but I'm not sure what's going on with housing units now. And if I told my coworkers here, native Pittsburghers, that I was moving to East Liberty, they would still think I was insane, and maybe refuse to visit my place.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by greg42

Heh, that map posted is odd. Even Mosites says the Whole Foods and such Eastside development is in East Liberty, but the city is drawing the Shadyside boundary on Centre. I know that can't be historically right, although I only moved here in 1991 and only paid close attention to this more recently.

At this point I'd probably consider living in the area around these things, but I'm not sure what's going on with housing units now. And if I told my coworkers here, native Pittsburghers, that I was moving to East Liberty, they would still think I was insane, and maybe refuse to visit my place.

Heh, when I told a co-worker I would consider moving to the Regent Square area of Wilkinsburg, he stared at me like I was Piltdown Man or something.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Drover

What you view as "smoking guns" I view as an attempt to tie together multiple developments along a single corridor into one marketable package.

Well, that much we agree about--it is the nature of that marketing we seem to be disputing.

And apparently whole blocks can just "defect" into adjacent neighborhoods, so why not just call themselves "Village at Shadyside" and defect?

I'm actually not sure how that process worked in the past, so I honestly don't know. Indeed, for all I know this would be a step toward getting themselves redefined as Shadyside, but in any event I think it is going to fail.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Drover

Heh, when I told a co-worker I would consider moving to the Regent Square area of Wilkinsburg, he stared at me like I was Piltdown Man or something.

Growing up in the Detroit area and then going east for college, I was amused by the massive difference in impression I would create if I said I grew up in Michigan or alternatively Detroit. As a resident of the Regent Square part of Wilkinsburg (twice over, now, having once rented and now bought), I am amused that I can again do the same thing .

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Growing up in the Detroit area and then going east for college, I was amused by the massive difference in impression I would create if I said I grew up in Michigan or alternatively Detroit. As a resident of the Regent Square part of Wilkinsburg (twice over, now, having once rented and now bought), I am amused that I can again do the same thing .

Being at native Michigander, same here!

When I lived in NYC, if I said I was from 'Michigan', people would get it confused with 'Mississippi', 'Minnesota', 'Missouri', etc. One time a person said, 'oh, Michigan, I went out to Oklahoma once, it must be very hard for you to be here in NYC'. I rolled my eyes to myself

But if you say 'Detroit', a MUCH different response.

I wonder what 'Pittsburgh' means to people outside of Pittsburgh...what do most Pittsburghers get from it when elsewhere?

[groar]

the village of shadyside is that gated housing development, right? that certainly is a weird place, inaccessible from the major road on one side and only accessible through little twisty side streets on the other. it seems silly to me. you're right that it's literally turning its back on the adjoining neighborhood, kinda like the waterfront. i bet residents are irritated now that they have to go all the way around their development to drive to trader joe's (although there are pedestrian entrances on penn, right?)

this neighborhood rebranding thing is certainly not unique to pittsburgh - the area where i lived in nyc went from bushwick to east williamsburg to williamsburg in the space of 5 years or so. i think a lot of the border expansion stuff is created by realtors. i remember seeing a $40k house for sale in squirrel hill when we were looking, going "what?", looking closer, and realizing it was in duck hollow! that's at the far end of greenfield! parts of swisshelm park are getting branded squirrel hill now too, since summerset extended the squill tentacles out a little further into the run.

[ditchdigger]

the village of shadyside is that gated housing development, right? that certainly is a weird place, inaccessible from the major road on one side and only accessible through little twisty side streets on the other. it seems silly to me. you're right that it's literally turning its back on the adjoining neighborhood, kinda like the waterfront.

That's it.

You have to understand that at the time it was built, there was no "neighborhood" to turn its back on. The middle school borders the one side. Where the shopping center on Penn is now, was a weedy field and illegal garbage dump, and the Giant Eagle is at the other end. The nearest residential area, in any direction other than the "Shadyside" side is on the far side of the tracks, and on the far side of Broad St, and if I'm not mistaken that wasn't owner occupied, but Housing Authority property.

parts of swisshelm park are getting branded squirrel hill now too, since summerset extended the squill tentacles out a little further into the run.

I'll be surprised if at some point, Summerset is not formally defined as a distinct neighborhood in its own right.

[jimmyev]

Sometime in the late 1980s, they redeveloped the building where AAA is now into a shopping center. It was gorgeous inside, and across the street from Shadyside. But it failed - miserably - because it was in 'East Liberty.' I kept thinking, 'OK, so criminals don't cross the street...'