Western Pioneers in the Burgh (Pittsburgh, California: foreclosure, mortgage, loans)

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I would agree that in terms of its dynamic topographic setting and intimate connection with the wilderness Pittsburgh is more like some Western cities than most of the cities either on the East Coast or in the Great Lakes area (in fact my brother and now sister live in Portland, OR, and we have commented about the similarities in the past, all in distinction from the Detroit area where we grew up). But then Pittsburgh combines that dynamic-topographic/wilderness setting with an older history, architectural mix, cultural institutions, dense urban core, and so on, and the only city in the west that really feels like that to me is San Francisco.

So if I was marketing Pittsburgh to Westerners, I guess I would claim it combines some of the urban-historical feel of San Francisco with the setting of a place like Portland but with housing prices like . . . well, like nowhere comparable in the West unless you count Texas.

Absolutely, that's why I'm planning to move there. I love the architecture. You can't touch a great old Victorian in a decent neighborhood in SF for under $1 million, even in this economy. Sf has always felt more like an east coast city to me. Until about 10 years ago, I was one of those snotty San franciscans who thought nowhere in the US - with a few exceptions - could even come close to SF. Then I visited many of the cities that I thought I would hate and found a lot to like.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by juliegt

Absolutely, that's why I'm planning to move there. I love the architecture. You can't touch a great old Victorian in a decent neighborhood in SF for under $1 million, even in this economy. Sf has always felt more like an east coast city to me. Until about 10 years ago, I was one of those snotty San franciscans who thought nowhere in the US - with a few exceptions - could even come close to SF. Then I visited many of the cities that I thought I would hate and found a lot to like.

Have you also looked at Providence, RI? A lot of Victorians out that way...beautiful. That seems to be another often overlooked city.

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

One of the first phrases I heard that made me interested in Pittsburgh:

"Pittsburgh: The Poor Man's San Francisco"

Me too! When I visited, I had to agree. Pittsburgh definitely lacks SF's polish and standing as an international destination, but there are many similarities. And, SF was a lot more blue collar when I was growing up. A real working class union town.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by juliegt

Me too! When I visited, I had to agree. Pittsburgh definitely lacks SF's polish and standing as an international destination, but there are many similarities. And, SF was a lot more blue collar when I was growing up. A real working class union town.

Yes, although Pittsburgh is not as "world class" as San Francisco, NYC, etc., I think people in those cities sometimes forget that not all cities want to be that huge, overpriced,etc. For instance, Vancouver, BC is a gorgeous city, but when huge numbers of Hong Kong wealthy moved there in the late 1990s, it ceased to be a place where common workers could afford a home. I would say that is true in many "world class" cities. Nothing wrong with something midsized, with character, and affordable with local wages.

Juliegt, a question. Do you know enough about Pittsburgh to compare its "character" to SF? It would seem that the culture would be quite different. San Francisco has attracted the smartest, artsiest, etc. for decades, so would seem to have a different feel than Pittsburgh, where the net pattern was emigration during that same period. Just curious.

[szug-bot]

i dont want westerners to move to pittsburgh. they complain about the culture out there, but they will inadvertently BRING those qualities to pittsburgh. a long time ago a long islander told me it was sad what was happening to the NYC suburbs- people were moving there from the city and 'bringing their attitudes with them'.

i dont care about toby keith's restaurant. that to me is an abhorrance (sp). that is generic american culture; in my much younger days i thought pittsburgh sucked because it wasnt 'with it', and lagged behind the rest of the country (my perception). now i see pittsburgh fondly because, well, its weird and different...and not 'with' the trends that most of america follows.

i WOULD like to see more skateboard parks, though. i wish i was exposed to that in my youth - i would still be skateboarding at a skateboard park. it looks like fun! here is what one might look like:


http://www.stcharlesparks.com/tinymc...skate_park.jpg

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

i dont want westerners to move to pittsburgh. they complain about the culture out there, but they will inadvertently BRING those qualities to pittsburgh. a long time ago a long islander told me it was sad what was happening to the NYC suburbs- people were moving there from the city and 'bringing their attitudes with them'.

i dont care about toby keith's restaurant. that to me is an abhorrance (sp). that is generic american culture; in my much younger days i thought pittsburgh sucked because it wasnt 'with it', and lagged behind the rest of the country (my perception). now i see pittsburgh fondly because, well, its weird and different...and not 'with' the trends that most of america follows.

i WOULD like to see more skateboard parks, though. i wish i was exposed to that in my youth - i would still be skateboarding at a skateboard park. it looks like fun! here is what one might look like:


http://www.stcharlesparks.com/tinymc...skate_park.jpg

Hi Szug-bot,

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and I am familiar with the obnoxious people who bail on their city, but bring their baggage with them. However, most people have not made their decision to move somewhere based on what people thought of them. For instance, millions of Mexicans have recently swarmed into the Southwest for jobs, enduring low wages and racism. Sounds like it was much the same for Irish, Italians, Slovak, Polish, and German folks a hundred years ago or so in Pittsburgh. I think it really boils down to what one place offers that another does not at a given point in time. It is the story of our country, IMO.

As for me, I am just a middle class wage slave. I have no big deal with where I live now in Oregon, except a decent 3 bedroom/2 bath home would cost 5-7 times my family wage. I cannot afford that. I am looking for something very fundamental: a nice, safe place to live with good schools and where wages and cost of living are aligned closely enough that I can save for my son's college, my retirement, and a vacation once in a while. Also, I would have no problem being around down to Earth folks who have no illusion they are the center of the universe.

[Hopes]

Fiddlehead, we don't consider you a westerner because you've been posting here for so long!

[BrianTH]

The bottom line is that people have a fundamental right to move themselves and their families to wherever they perceive the best opportunities for themselves. So while I personally wouldn't want their to be a huge flood of people from any particular place coming to Pittsburgh too rapidly, if in fact a bunch of Western home-price-refugees do show up in Pittsburgh (in a trickle or a flood), we should welcome them and make do.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

i dont want westerners to move to pittsburgh. they complain about the culture out there, but they will inadvertently BRING those qualities to pittsburgh. a long time ago a long islander told me it was sad what was happening to the NYC suburbs- people were moving there from the city and 'bringing their attitudes with them'.

i dont care about toby keith's restaurant. that to me is an abhorrance (sp). that is generic american culture; in my much younger days i thought pittsburgh sucked because it wasnt 'with it', and lagged behind the rest of the country (my perception). now i see pittsburgh fondly because, well, its weird and different...and not 'with' the trends that most of america follows.

i WOULD like to see more skateboard parks, though. i wish i was exposed to that in my youth - i would still be skateboarding at a skateboard park. it looks like fun! here is what one might look like:


http://www.stcharlesparks.com/tinymc...skate_park.jpg

There is an anit-Californian thread on the Colorado forum (again!) complaining of the above. When we first moved there, there was a big anti-easterner sentiment. It's ugly. It's also demeaning to the person to hear "you're OK for an (insert name of supposed undesirable location here)".

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Hi Szug-bot,

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and I am familiar with the obnoxious people who bail on their city, but bring their baggage with them. However, most people have not made their decision to move somewhere based on what people thought of them. For instance, millions of Mexicans have recently swarmed into the Southwest for jobs, enduring low wages and racism. Sounds like it was much the same for Irish, Italians, Slovak, Polish, and German folks a hundred years ago or so in Pittsburgh. I think it really boils down to what one place offers that another does not at a given point in time. It is the story of our country, IMO.

As for me, I am just a middle class wage slave. I have no big deal with where I live now in Oregon, except a decent 3 bedroom/2 bath home would cost 5-7 times my family wage. I cannot afford that. I am looking for something very fundamental: a nice, safe place to live with good schools and where wages and cost of living are aligned closely enough that I can save for my son's college, my retirement, and a vacation once in a while. Also, I would have no problem being around down to Earth folks who have no illusion they are the center of the universe.

I agree that most people, perhaps the vast, vast majority, do not move somewhere with the intention of "raping" it, changing it to be like where they came from, etc. I think it's helpful for people to learn that there is no one "gold standard" way to do things, and to hear about how things are done somewhere else. Sometimes, innocent remarks are interpreted to mean something sinister. Someone says, "In (insert name of city/state), it was done this way, and the person to whom this is addressed takes it as an insult, when maybe it was just an interesting observation.

Fiddlehead, if you move to Pittsburgh, do not apologize, even once for being from the west.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The bottom line is that people have a fundamental right to move themselves and their families to wherever they perceive the best opportunities for themselves. So while I personally wouldn't want their to be a huge flood of people from any particular place coming to Pittsburgh too rapidly, if in fact a bunch of Western home-price-refugees do show up in Pittsburgh (in a trickle or a flood), we should welcome them and make do.

Agreed!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

There is an anit-Californian thread on the Colorado forum (again!) complaining of the above. When we first moved there, there was a big anti-easterner sentiment. It's ugly. It's also demeaning to the person to hear "you're OK for an (insert name of supposed undesirable location here)".

California transplants can be annoying. They often whine about how much better it is/was in California.

I have known people who havent' lived there in 20 years, yet they still can't stop tearing down where they live and make it very clear they wish they were still in California.