How would you describe the Pittsburgh character? (Washington, Homestead: employment, college)

[Drover]

It could also loosely describe any post-industrial town on Earth, so I still don't see that it has any references to Pittsburgh or Manchester except that they're both post-industrial towns.

[neurodistortion]

Originally Posted by Drover

It could also loosely describe any post-industrial town on Earth, so I still don't see that it has any references to Pittsburgh or Manchester except that they're both post-industrial towns.

Well, exactly, but all facts aside, that's what came to mind when I heard the song.

[highway29south]

I see a lot of Italian influence with Polish mixed in. Most of the people I live near claim Italian as their heritage. Some of the people in their 30's look very Italian which says to me that their parents are both Italian, even though their family has been in the U.S. a long time. That seems to say that some of the ethnic groups stay within themselves or seek out others like them. Not true in all cases, I'm sure. Just a guess.

Pittsburgh as a city tends to be in a sort of a bubble. People may leave, and move back, but their seems to be very few people from other areas of the country move here. People here have very extensive family and friend connections and they remain loyal to those relationships, to the point of nepotism. Coming in as an outsider, you can find Pittsburghers friendly but not knowing people here all your life and having that history marks you as an outsider no matter how long you live here.

The people are friendly and helpful. They also tend to be very proud of the city and there is a certain tone of posessiveness about it. The closeness of the homes, the manners and the family relationships seem to originate from Eastern European customs, IMHO. I am from the south so I know little about being from Eastern Europe! But the differences from where I grew up are very different and stand out to me, even after living here 20+ years.

I hope that helps you!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by highway29south

Some of the people in their 30's look very Italian which says to me that their parents are both Italian, even though their family has been in the U.S. a long time. That seems to say that some of the ethnic groups stay within themselves or seek out others like them. Not true in all cases, I'm sure. Just a guess.

Looks are deceiving you. Italian characteristis are dominant gene traits. That's why they look very Italian to you.

My husband and his siblings look like they just got off the boat, and they're only half Italian. My sisters' husbands' families are the same way too. In families on both sides, our children are only 25% Italian or less, and they look like they just got off the boat too.

Most interesting, the Italian mindset is often dominant in these families. They boast being Italian even though they're only part Italian. I've managed to overcome that in my family. My children associate themselves with being Irish even though they do look more Italian and have Italian last names. But my sister's children associate more with being Italian even though they have a lower percentage of Italian than my children.

It really all comes down to which parent is the most dominant personality pushing one ethnicity. But claiming to be Italian, even if there's only a drop of Italian blood, is the norm because the Italian personalities are usually the most dominant in most marriages.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Which ethnic group or socioeconomic event has left the strongest print on Pittsburgh, in your opinion? Or, if you will, which combination?

Although there are English and German backgrounds, Irish, Italian, Polish, Slovok, and Hungarian are the predominant ethic cultures promoted by Pittsburghers.

I'd say it's pretty equal between Irish, Italian, German and lumping together the Eastern European ethic groups.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Or is the city too large and diverse to have single unifying character?

It's not too large. It's just too blended. Most Pittsburghers are mutts. Many families embrace one ethnicity over the others in their lineage, but that's becoming watered down.

The Irish, Italian, German and Polish do the best job of promoting ethnicity through annual festivals, but there are smaller groups with festivals, like the Greek food festivals too.

Sadly, some festivals aren't even worth it. For instance, the Irish festival is watered down tourist junk and much of the food isn't truly Irish.

You'll find Polish food anywhere on a daily basis. I think that has more to do more with the fact that it's easy vendor food.

Just imagine how difficult it would be to serve Italian or Irish food from a vendor cart on the street!

As a result of Polish food being so easy to vendor, I think most Pittsburghers think that Polish is the predominant ethic group.

I think Polish is more accurately ONE of the main ethic groups.

[bradjl2009]

From wikipedia about Pittsburgh demographics: "The five largest White ethnic groups in the city of Pittsburgh are German (19.7%), Irish (15.8%), Italian (11.8%), Polish (8.4%), and English (4.6%), while the metropolitan area is approximately 22% German, and 16% Italian, and 12% Irish. Pittsburgh has one of the largest Italian communities in the nation,and also has the nation's fifth largest Ukrainian community."

[ditchdigger]

As long as the subject oif food is on the table (God-awful pun. I apologize. ), Pittsburgh is like a big pot of vegetable soup. Who's to say whether it's the potatos, the corn, the carrots, or the other ingredients that make it taste the way it does? It's the combination of all those things...

[Fiddlehead]

Wow! What nice thoughtful bunch of responses. I even like that "Life in a Northern Town" song. From afar, it would seem that the ethnic element intersecting with a "past its prime" feeling would be key elements. For instance, Portland, OR is very much a target for recent immigrants, and much of the zealously intolerant boosterism must link to the recent immigrant wanting to justify their decision. Second and third or higher generation residents feel much less need to pimp their city.

It is interesting how different groups dominate our self-mythology. Sounds like the Italians are even stronger self-promoters than the Irish. If you ever look at a map of American dominant ethnicities:

Maps of American ancestries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the German element is very widespread, but I have almost never heard anyone crowing about it. "Kiss me I'm Bavarian!" LOL! In our family, my Mother's side, a large, clannish English, Scottish, and Irish clan of large, pasty people is very close and interested in their history. Dad is about 50% German through his Dad, and my swarthy jolly Grandma was supposedly part Native American, but adopted. They both died 30 years ago, and my Dad's side of the family hardly ever speaks to each other, much less keeps records. So, one side of my family has a history and the other does not, from my perspective at least. I really do need to look into that Ancestry.com website. The point is, I will agree whole heartedly, that our percieved cultural roots may align only roughly with our actual genetic origins, due to cultural dominance, selective history, etc.

It does seem that the E. European element would be one of the things that distinguishes Pittsburgh, as there is no shortage of Germans, Irish, and Italians anywhere in this country!

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Wow! What nice thoughtful bunch of responses. I even like that "Life in a Northern Town" song. From afar, it would seem that the ethnic element intersecting with a "past its prime" feeling would be key elements. For instance, Portland, OR is very much a target for recent immigrants, and much of the zealously intolerant boosterism must link to the recent immigrant wanting to justify their decision. Second and third or higher generation residents feel much less need to pimp their city.

It is interesting how different groups dominate our self-mythology. Sounds like the Italians are even stronger self-promoters than the Irish. If you ever look at a map of American dominant ethnicities:

Maps of American ancestries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the German element is very widespread, but I have almost never heard anyone crowing about it. "Kiss me I'm Bavarian!" LOL! In our family, my Mother's side, a large, clannish English, Scottish, and Irish clan of large, pasty people is very close and interested in their history. Dad is about 50% German through his Dad, and my swarthy jolly Grandma was supposedly part Native American, but adopted. They both died 30 years ago, and my Dad's side of the family hardly ever speaks to each other, much less keeps records. So, one side of my family has a history and the other does not, from my perspective at least. I really do need to look into that Ancestry.com website. The point is, I will agree whole heartedly, that our percieved cultural roots may align only roughly with our actual genetic origins, due to cultural dominance, selective history, etc.

It does seem that the E. European element would be one of the things that distinguishes Pittsburgh, as there is no shortage of Germans, Irish, and Italians anywhere in this country!

It was neat to see there isn't much of a concentration of Hungarians or Slovaks outside of SW PA and Irish and Italians outside of the Northeast.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

It was neat to see there isn't much of a concentration of Hungarians or Slovaks outside of SW PA and Irish and Italians outside of the Northeast.

Yes, there is a lot of information that web site. I would suspect that the Irish are pretty widespread, but they are so dominant in the NE that it stands out. Interesting how a number of subdominant groups in the US, do seem to give a distinctive character to different regions (e.g., E. Europeans around Pittsburgh, Scandinavians in Minnesota, Italians, Jewish in NYC area). In large swaths of the country, assimilation has been so complete, or secondary internal migrations have been so large, that the ethnic identities are muted.

Does Cleveland have a similar history? It seems the ethnic profiles are pretty parallel.