The Paris Of Appalachia (Pittsburgh, Johnstown: schools, minimum wage, places to live)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by TelecasterBlues

I dunno if it's just the industrial past or what, but the fact that we aren't more of a fun little "nature city" like Portland and Austin seems completely ridiculous and nobody's fault but our own.

It's the industrial past, and we are slowly making the transition to a more nature-oriented city. It just takes time to change both the landscape and the culture, and to be blunt I think there is a bit of a generational turnover required as well.

[Doowlle34]

Originally Posted by Drover

I don't. The values are fundamentally the same but there are some differences. There are also noticeable lifestyle differences and differences in attitudes, approaches to life, and perceptions of the world around them.

In my experience, I would say that an individual from "industrial" Appalachia is more likely to be white ethnic, employed in a better-paying (possibly union) job, with perhaps some post-high school education (a few years of college, or technical school training), and most importantly -- aspirational.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by wycoff

I think that the movie Deliverance did much to demonize the term Appalachia. It has even popped up in this thread. For whatever reason, the movie made a serious cultural impression. Many people immediately think "Deliverance" when they hear the word Appalachia.

Boy, are you ever young! I don't know if "Appalachia" gots its negative connotation in the 60s or earlier, but it got a lot of press during the 60s during LBJ's "War on Poverty". All the national magazines focused on the area. I remember being shocked to find out I lived there, and I remember the adults joking about it during a family reunion in the 60s.

[wycoff]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Boy, are you ever young! I don't know if "Appalachia" gots its negative connotation in the 60s or earlier, but it got a lot of press during the 60s during LBJ's "War on Poverty". All the national magazines focused on the area. I remember being shocked to find out I lived there, and I remember the adults joking about it during a family reunion in the 60s.

I am fairly young (27 years old), but I know about the war on poverty. In my experience, that isn't referenced often. The reference that people seem to inevitably go for is Deliverance. Maybe it's because the motivation behind the War on Poverty was pity, while the motivation behind Deliverance was hate and scorn.

[wycoff]

Originally Posted by jacosimo

"Hate and scorn"? For who, Appalachians? Have you ever been to the Laurel Highlands?

Yes, I grew up there. What's your point?

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by jacosimo

Garrett county, MD is a ski-resort paradise. Not much of a hard knock life there. Ever been to Bolivar, PA or the Sewer of Seward? Man, those people are actually WORSE than the stereotypes. Deliverance was about West Virginia. There was no reference to Maryland in that movie, and I didn't find it to be "hateful" or "scornful" towards mountain people at all. Many people in the mountains of west-central Pennsylvania are inbred. If you truly knew the extent of the incest problem in that region, you'd be appalled. It goes unchecked because the area is so isolated.

I've been to Bolivar, PA before, and it was one of only two places I've been to in this country where I felt totally out of place. (The other is Beaverdam, AZ.)

As for Deliverance, that movie was filmed primarily on the Ocoee River near the town of Clayton, GA.

If you're going to make claims about incest in rural western Pennsylvania, please show me some sources, because I've never heard anything about it before.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by jacosimo

Garrett county, MD is a ski-resort paradise. Not much of a hard knock life there.

Paradise for the out of towners. Garrett county is one of the poorest areas in MD. I used to spend time down there with a friend of mine who owned a home there. The county was thinking about building subsidized housing because the people who did all the grunt work could not afford to live around the lake.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by jacosimo

Many people in the mountains of west-central Pennsylvania are inbred. If you truly knew the extent of the incest problem in that region, you'd be appalled. It goes unchecked because the area is so isolated.

Where's your proof? I've been doing genealogical research of my family in the area -- and both maternal and paternal families are from Bedford and Somerset Counties going WAY back, and I haven't found ANY stereotypical mountain folk stuff -- like marrying at a way young age, cousins intermarrying....

[wycoff]

Originally Posted by jacosimo

Garrett county, MD is a ski-resort paradise. Not much of a hard knock life there.

That takes away your credibility right there. Have you ever been to Swanton? Merrbachtown? Selbysport? Jennings? Kitzmiller? Bloomington? Dung Hill (yes, that's a real place)? Etc. The notion that GC is some sort of ski paradise for the locals is a laugh. GC is better off than some of its Appalachian neighbors, but to characterize it in the way you have is preposterous. If you go five miles from the lake/Wisp, then you'll see what Garrett County is like for most of the people who live there. Most locals are poor to very poor. Spend an hour or two in the Oakland, MD Walmart and then come back and tell me how well off those people are.

I've never been to Bolivar, PA or Seward, PA (although I've traveled extensively through Somerset County- some of my family lives there), but I doubt that they're worse than some of the places that I've been to in Garrett County. Judging from their Wikipedia pages (for what they're worth), Bolivar and Seward are economically better off than many places in Garrett County. Only 11% of the people in Bolivar are below the poverty line? Only 12% in Seward? That's much better than Grantsville, MD (23.8% below the poverty line)- and Grantsville's one of the nicer and more affluent places to live in Garrett County.

There are some places in the Kentucky Appalachians that make Garrett County look wealthy. However, I doubt that there are any places in PA that are that poor.

Deliverance was about West Virginia. There was no reference to Maryland in that movie, and I didn't find it to be "hateful" or "scornful" towards mountain people at all.

Right- the rapacious, violent, sub-human brain dead hicks were just loving tributes.

Garrett County is culturally and economically far more West Virginia / Southwest PA than it is MD. An insult to WV is basically an insult to those areas as well. People in the region may be poor, but it's unfair to lump them all in with the troglodytes depicted in Deliverance.

[wycoff]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Paradise for the out of towners. Garrett county is one of the poorest areas in MD. I used to spend time down there with a friend of mine who owned a home there. The county was thinking about building subsidized housing because the people who did all the grunt work could not afford to live around the lake.

That's right. There are plenty of people in the county who commute 20 miles to work a just above minimum wage job on the lake. I don't know where jacosimo is getting his/her information. From the back of a MD tourism brochure/ propaganda booklet perhaps?