PGH seems like a good match.. But what is it really like? (Pittsburgh: renting, to move)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Hopes

You posted previously about your parents' opinions on the kitchens during their house hunt.

Yes, and where did I say they were from? Hint: It's in one of my previous posts.

We get westerners who post about this after they've looked at houses. Your parents might have cared, but most Pittsburghers don't expect updated kitchens when they are house hunting. Seriously, the very fact your parents ran into this problem is proof that it's the norm for the area. Your parents are in the minority. It they weren't, most Pittsburghers would be updating their houses prior to putting them on the market. The fact is that most houses aren't updated here.

Minority for what? I said it was something they noticed, and discussed.

We don't care to the extent HOA's care! That's my point!

Who's this "we" Kemosabe? Do you presume to speak for every Pittsburgher?

Those are acceptable expectations that are handled by local governments here.

Again, who did I say was doing them here?

Originally Posted by Hopes

Let's be realistic. Katiana only gave you the population for the immediate city proper. Pittsburgh's metro area is 2.5 million.

I'll bet the westerns are likley chosing to live in the suburbs so they wouldn't show up in Katiana's statistics.


Yep! Hate to break it to you!

You'll find granite, but it's not the norm in your price range.

I gave you the population for the city b/c that's what I could find statistics for. Here are the stats for Sewickly and Mt. Lebanon. (Gee, why do I have to look up stats for people who are perfectly capable of doing it for themselves?)

Place of birth for U.S.-born residents:
(Mt. Lebanon)
This state: 23885
Northeast: 2072
Midwest: 2696
South: 1970
West: 680


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/housing/hou...#ixzz0XWphx34Q
(2.1% westerners)

Place of birth for U.S.-born residents:
(Sewickley)
This state: 2660
Northeast: 323
Midwest: 335
South: 302
West: 49
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/housing/hou...#ixzz0XWqoBM3w
1.8% Westerners

My educated guess would be that the percentage is similar througout the Pgh area.

If you want more stats, just go to the City-Data main page for Pennsylvania, and click on the town you are interested in. Then click on housing stats. It's in there. You have to do the math yourself.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Interesting thread. So, according to the data Katiana posted, only 4300 or so out of 330k (or 1.3%) are from the West? Hmmm..gasp...does that mean that your homes have relatively few "granite counter tops" "Wolf Gourmet Ranges" "Shintu sunset" exterior designs with gongs and temples in the front yard?

Bench Warmer, a think a possible side issue in Arizona might be cultural. I recall in my visits to New Mexico and elsewhere in the Southwest, the standards are quite different in the hispanic and Native American towns. Front yards with old cars flying faded "Columbus was a Terrorist" bumper stickers, washing machines, toilets as planters, a few stray dogs, and chickens running free are part of the ambiance. Since obviously both cultures were there before the anglos, it comes with the territory. That said, in New Mexico at least, many comparatively wealthy Easterners and Californians have immigrated with different views of what a neighborhood should look like. Namely like a California or "New Southwest" area with a touch of locally-inspired iconography, like coyotes with bandanas,and doubly large homes because "it's so cheap here!" Hence the exclusionary covenents, and the like, are to keep the natives of of Shangri-La. I kind of think the situation is different in Pittsburgh, because society seems less stratified culturally and enonomically. But what do I know?

I think you should go out there for an extended visit.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I think you should go out there for an extended visit.

Your point?

If you are saying I should visit Pittsburgh, I would of course love to.

If you are implying I should get out of the West because I have some issues with our social and architectural development issues and conflicts, I think you are being rude. People can love many areas and have issues with them. And they should discuss them openly, and with a bit of humor.

If my comments about New Mexico caused offense, they were loosely paraphrased from comments by New Mexico themselves over on their board. New Mexicans have a wonderful sense of humor and irony about their state, which I admire. I will continue to post plenty of comments skewering the nouveau rich in the West and wherever, because I often observe they have little decorum and taste. That wouldn't change if I moved to Pittsburgh.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Your point?

If you are saying I should visit Pittsburgh, I would of course love to.

If you are implying I should get out of the West because I have some issues with our social and architectural development issues and conflicts, I think you are being rude. People can love many areas and have issues with them. And they should discuss them openly, and with a bit of humor.

If my comments about New Mexico caused offense, they were loosely paraphrased from comments by New Mexico themselves over on their board. New Mexicans have a wonderful sense of humor and irony about their state, which I admire. I will continue to post plenty of comments skewering the nouveau rich in the West and wherever, because I often observe they have little decorum and taste. That wouldn't change if I moved to Pittsburgh.

Good grief! I guess I should have deleted all of your post but this:

kind of think the situation is different in Pittsburgh, because society seems less stratified culturally and enonomically. But what do I know?

I really was responding to your question. I don't think it is true that Pittsburgh is less stratified culturally and economically than, say, Denver, which is the only comparison I can make with much validity. I think that is the kind of thing you would see if you made a trip out there. There are plenty of nouveaux riche in Pittsburgh, living in places like Wexford, Cranberry, Peters Twp., etc. And really, what is wrong with being nouveaux riche? Are we all supposed to never supass our parents in earnings?

I barely skimmed your comments about New Mexico, and I found them interesting. NM is a much different southwestern state than AZ.

I don't know where you read into anything I said that I think you "should get out of the West because I have some issues with our social and architectural development issues and conflicts".

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Good grief! I guess I should have deleted all of your post but this:



I really was responding to your question. I don't think it is true that Pittsburgh is less stratified culturally and economically than, say, Denver, which is the only comparison I can make with much validity. I think that is the kind of thing you would see if you made a trip out there. There are plenty of nouveaux riche in Pittsburgh, living in places like Wexford, Cranberry, Peters Twp., etc. And really, what is wrong with being nouveaux riche? Are we all supposed to never supass our parents in earnings?

I barely skimmed your comments about New Mexico, and I found them interesting. NM is a much different southwestern state than AZ.

I don't know where you read into anything I said that I think you "should get out of the West because I have some issues with our social and architectural development issues and conflicts".

Ok, I get you. I must have been feeling punchy. Sorry. And for what it is worth, I don't mind you bagging on the Burgh on occasion. Otherwise these boards become senseless cheerleading sites.

Yes, New Mexico is pretty unique. Quite lovable in its own way, but with plenty of problems too. Like most places..

[Katarina Witt]

Apology accepted. And yes, this board can be a real cheerleading tournament at times. Some of the "cheers" have chased off a lot of the others.

[chloride1]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Funny!

Let's take my flower garden for an example. I'm an avid perennial gardener. My garden is extravagant and beautiful---a few months a year it looks just like the pictures in the magazines. But right now, it looks like dead weeds. Everything has died and gone to seed. It has looked like that for a while, but it wasn't time to cut back----gardens need to die off naturally. Letting nature take its course is part of what makes the beautiful gardens that are in magazines. An HOA would have required my garden be cut back before everything went to seed. I've read about HOA's defining what plants could be planted. I couldn't imagine someone saying I couldn't plant Coreopsis!

Here's an HOA Landscape Plant List for anyone who thinks I'm making this up: http://www.ccmgatx.org/Design/HOA_Landscape_List_Foundation.pdf (broken link)

Oh my goodness! I didn't know HOAs were so restrictive with respect to flowers!

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Apology accepted. And yes, this board can be a real cheerleading tournament at times. Some of the "cheers" have chased off a lot of the others.

The reason for the cheerleading comes from the fact that Pittsburgh has been sh"" on for so long, that those who always knew that it was a great city are milking the accolades in the recent years for all that it is worth.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

The reason for the cheerleading comes from the fact that Pittsburgh has been sh"" on for so long, that those who always knew that it was a great city are milking the accolades in the recent years for all that it is worth.

Hey, no bagging on this board here. All the boards do it. And if someone says anything critical, they are lambasted or told to move. I think it is silly. My take is...flame away, but if you are full of it, expect to be told so.

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Hey, no bagging on this board here. All the boards do it. And if someone says anything critical, they are lambasted or told to move. I think it is silly. My take is...flame away, but if you are full of it, expect to be told so.

I respect that. I guess in cities like LA or NYC, they take criticism with a grain of salt, because they know they have made it. Pittsburghers feel that they are the only ones who are allowed to be critical of their city because they assume that the criticism from outsiders stems highly from what the non-natives have read. In other words, if you go in with a glass half-empty attitude, you may say "Ah ha, that is why Pittsburgh has the reputation that it does" if you have to sit in traffic or whatever. I do think once Pittsburghers stop ragging on their city as a whole, they will be able to accept the painful truth about the negatives more easily. It is all about confidence. Denizens of cities like San Francisco or Boston have confidence and know that their city perception is great and can probably take the critics more easily. Many outsiders are discovering Pittsburgh's greatness, but is it held up there with the cream of the crop cities in the USA? I don't think so. At least not when looking at the perception of the big picture.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

I respect that. I guess in cities like LA or NYC, they take criticism with a grain of salt, because they know they have made it. Pittsburghers feel that they are the only ones who are allowed to be critical of their city because they assume that the criticism from outsiders stems highly from what the non-natives have read. In other words, if you go in with a glass half-empty attitude, you may say "Ah ha, that is why Pittsburgh has the reputation that it does" if you have to sit in traffic or whatever. I do think once Pittsburghers stop ragging on their city as a whole, they will be able to accept the painful truth about the negatives more easily. It is all about confidence. Denizens of cities like San Francisco or Boston have confidence and know that their city perception is great and can probably take the critics more easily. Many outsiders are discovering Pittsburgh's greatness, but is it held up there with the cream of the crop cities in the USA? I don't think so. At least not when looking at the perception of the big picture.

Ultimately, people come to these boards for information, and a universally giddy assessment smells funny. Usually, people who are not pimping real estate shoot straight as a whole, but you sometimes have to disentangle personal experience from generalities. I personally find most to do their job quite well, in particular this one.