Still torn between Pittsburgh and Denver (California, Ashland: layoffs, transfer, school)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by worldwanderer

He said "it comes down to affordability". If "sunshine" is that important to him, why even leave Phoenix?

He says it comes down to affordability, but that's only one factor.

Even though Phoenix has sunshine, the cost of living is higher than Denver and the lifestyle is suburban hell.

Even though Pittsburgh's cost of living is 10% less than Denver, I'm guessing that he thinks sunshine is worth 10%.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by worldwanderer

Have you ever been to Pittsburgh?

Nope. I hope to change that soon.

I should add that I mentioned Oregon a post up, because W. Oregon is very similar to Pittsburgh in terms of cloudiness and rain. For me, the lush vegetation, large rivers and wetlands, lakes, and all are supported by the higher rainfall. I think it is a fair trade. I am a woodsy kind of guy, so is my wife, and I like what I see in and around Pittsburgh. I don't claim any expertise in that region whatsoever. Though my wife did grow up in Rhode Island.

[Bench Warmer]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Worldwanderer, I understand your point, but I do think Denver would be better for the OP.

He might be from Boston but he has spent a significant part of his life in Arizona. Sunshine is important to him.

Although he'd fit in better as a working class guy here in Pittsburgh, he can definitely find happiness struggling financially in Denver with all the free outdoor recreation available.

If you ask me, it really comes down to which city would one prefer to live if financially struggling.

A dollar goes much father in Pittsburgh and the population isn't pretentious.

However, Denver's population isn't super pretentious either so he won't have a hard time fitting in if he's struggling financially in Denver.

Bottom line: Benchwarmer wants sunshine more than anything else.

If he can afford a modest standard of living in Denver, he'll be happier in Denver even if he could have a more expendable income in Pittsburgh.

That's what makes this difficult decision. I enjoy sunshine.. Not just for the sake of it being sunny outside... You have to remember, I'm an electrician.. Constantly exposed to the elements. I prefer to work in clear conditions..

Pittsburgh sounds like a perfect match for me. I'm just concerned about a couple of things. Weather and work. The sun shines on average 45% of the time in Pittsburgh. That's not horrible, but I recall being irritated about the weather in Boston (where the sun is shining 54% of the time).

I just felt like plans were always being screwed up thanks to weather. I don't know if it was just a bad attitude or what, but I always felt like I was trapped in the house. Plus, working in the cold winter rains is awful. I still have yet to hear back from the union in Pittsburgh about work. For all I know they could be really slow and not looking for another electrician.

Denver on the other hand is one of the busiest in the nation right now. They estimate that they have at least 5 years of work on the books right now. That's a huge plus. Also, I hold a New Hampshire electrical licenses, which reciprocates to Colorado. I wouldn't have to re-test in order to become a "Journeyman" electrician. That's a huge plus also.

I haven't heard back from PA about how they license their electricians. I haven't heard back from the IBEW in pittsburgh either about how much work they have upcoming..

What I do know is, Denver & Pittsburgh I.B.E.W pay about the same ($30 an hour). That's an $8 raise over what I'm making now. Pittsburgh is a lot less expensive than Denver. Either way, as long as I can stay busy with the work, I'll be better off financially than I am here in Phoenix. I make 45K a year and paying 1K a month to rent a single family house. I'd like to keep my 1K rent payment in either city.. It can be done in Pittsburgh easily, or so you guys tell me. In Denver, it wouldn't be as easy, but it can be done. Even if I bumped it up to 1200 a month, I'd still be better off compared to my salary than I am here in Phoenix. Work might dictate where I go next. If Local 5 tells me they don't have a lot coming up, then I guess here I come Denver.

Pittsburgh only really has 1 con. That's the weather. I love its location. It's within a days drive of every city that actually matters in this country. It's closer to family. It's cheaper. I just think the weather might make me feel blue. I guess another bad thing is all these reports of bad air quality. I still am shocked that Pittsburgh has one of the worst air qualities in the whole country!! I can't believe it!

I wish I could spend a few months in Pittsburgh to see what all this cloudy weather is about..

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Bench Warmer

What I do know is, Denver & Pittsburgh I.B.E.W pay about the same ($30 an hour). That's an $8 raise over what I'm making now. Pittsburgh is a lot less expensive than Denver.

Wow! Pittsburgh pays almost 20k more a year and the cost of living is the lowest.

See, I've been telling people here that the trades pay high here because we don't have an immigrant population. Nobody believed me.

Originally Posted by Bench Warmer

I wish I could spend a few months in Pittsburgh to see what all this cloudy weather is about..

If you caught a couple weeks of what we had today, you'd never come back! So it would be ideal if you could visit in the winter and the summer.

[Fiddlehead]

Well, doing electrical work outside in the cold and wet is a serious concern. I personally would prefer Denver for that vocation. But that is just me.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Well, doing electrical work outside in the cold and wet is a serious concern. I personally would prefer Denver for that vocation. But that is just me.

How much commercial construction electricity is done outside? All of the electricians I see working downtown are doing electrical work for interior buildouts.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Wow! Pittsburgh pays almost 20k more a year and the cost of living is the lowest.

See, I've been telling people here that the trades pay high here because we don't have an immigrant population. Nobody believed me.


If you caught a couple weeks of what we had today, you'd never come back! So it would be ideal if you could visit in the winter and the summer.

He said Denver and Pittsburgh pay the same. $30/hr = ~$60K/yr, so that is $15K more than he is making now.

Denver has a large immigrant population. It doesn't seem to be depressing electrician's wages.

On $60K, you could do very well in Denver.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Bench Warmer

I still am shocked that Pittsburgh has one of the worst air qualities in the whole country!! I can't believe it!

That is another thing I think is easy to overestimate the significance of on a personal level. We have some localized problems--serious problems to be sure, but localized. So you can avoid those problems simply by not living in one of those pockets.

[Bench Warmer]

Originally Posted by Hopes

How much commercial construction electricity is done outside? All of the electricians I see working downtown are doing electrical work for interior buildouts.

Depends really. In Boston, I hardly ever worked outside. Most of the work was retrofit's. Out here in AZ, everything is ground up construction. I spent 6 long months in the blistering heat working outside.. Not a minute in the shade... It really caught me off guard because I was so used to working in doors.

Between the economy slowing down, and the thermometer going up, when I was offered a job to work in a prison, I took it. It was 3.5 dollar pay cut, but the benefits were better, and it was guaranteed 40 hours of work. Electricians don't get paid enough out here to deal with the heat and dust. Hopes is dead on when she says immigrants lower wages. It's a fact.

anyway,

I'd assume that Pittsburgh would be more like Boston because most of the structures are already built.. So maybe a lot of the work would be in doors. But even when your working in doors for the most part, your going to be outside at some point..


I just noticed that Boston actually averages more rain than Pittsburgh.. How many of those cloudy days involve rain?

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Bench Warmer

Depends really. In Boston, I hardly ever worked outside. Most of the work was retrofit's. Out here in AZ, everything is ground up construction. I spent 6 long months in the blistering heat working outside.. Not a minute in the shade... It really caught me off guard because I was so used to working in doors.

Between the economy slowing down, and the thermometer going up, when I was offered a job to work in a prison, I took it. It was 3.5 dollar pay cut, but the benefits were better, and it was guaranteed 40 hours of work. Electricians don't get paid enough out here to deal with the heat and dust. Hopes is dead on when she says immigrants lower wages. It's a fact.

anyway,

I'd assume that Pittsburgh would be more like Boston because most of the structures are already built.. So maybe a lot of the work would be in doors. But even when your working in doors for the most part, your going to be outside at some point..


I just noticed that Boston actually averages more rain than Pittsburgh.. How many of those cloudy days involve rain?

Well, a figure does come to mind. Pittsburgh averages about 152 days with over 0.01" of rain per year, which is about the same as Portland, OR and very high for the continental U.S. Only western Washington, Coastal Oregon, and N. New England match it. However, it would seems that with less than 38" spread over 152 days, you are talking light rain on many days.