Pittsburg Area Towns (Pittsburgh, Lebanon, West Mifflin: sale, Home Depot, neighborhoods)

[touretteboy65]

If the area we choose to live offers what we're needing, driving to Pittsburgh will only be necessary to take advantage of big events, such as concerts, pro games, museums, or sight seeing. That being said, I'm not too overly concerned with how long it takes to drive to Pittsburgh downtown. We're content if the town has movie theaters, restaurants, good shopping, etc., that will take care of our everyday needs. When we choose to drive into Pittsburgh, it will only be during the times I discussed above. We do the same here in Oviedo when we have to drive to Orlando to go to a concert or attraction, and the drive doesn't bother me. As long as the area offers good schools and neighborhoods, everything else will pretty much take care of itself. When you all discuss the area of Cranberry and its congestion, are you talking major congestion? People's definition of congestion varies from one to another. I've been to towns where residents complain about traffic, and I find it laughable, compared to what I'm used to in Orlando. It's something that obviously I need to see for myself to get a good idea what I'm willing to tolerate.

[greg42]

Pittsburgh is pretty light on traffic compared to a lot of large cities. I can't specifically speak to Orlando rush hour as I didn't come through there at rush hour or anything.

See, what you just wrote is kind of what I assumed in the beginning, that you wouldn't necessarily be commuting daily to downtown and would only want it near for occasional trips.

So I guess the question is, what do you consider a necessity, leaving aside the house space, yard space and schools that have already been fairly well established? You said shopping, restaurants and movie theater. Well, what sorts of these? Cranberry is pretty much typical sprawl. You've got your big box chain stores, smaller stores and mainly chain restaurants, although there are a few independent places both shops and dining. Some of the chains are local or regional. The movie theater is older, state of the art before stadium seating became common. It's no longer part of a chain, but I recently saw some evidence that they may be doing renovation (roll off dumpster around the side). For other movie theaters you wouldn't really be driving towards downtown anyway (except for something like the Pittsburgh Filmmakers, you know, arty stuff) but instead to another suburb. The newest one is at Settler's Ridge in Robinson.

I think Cranberry and next door Seven Fields serves fairly well for most everyday stuff. It does not (and probably won't for a while because the plans fell through) have a large regional mall with Sears/JCP/Macy's. For that you have to go to Ross Park Mall (or the less upscale Beaver Valley or Butler Valley malls, or wherever else you choose to drive that day, such as Robinson, the drives probably aren't a lot different, just depends upon which mix of additional stuff you want). Now that is congestion, McKnight Road where Ross Park Mall and the closer in north hills shopping district is located. But then, I don't find I need a mall like that very often, so that being a little more inconvenient to get to is not a problem for me. What do I need frequently? Giant Eagle (the dominant regional grocery chain), Target (or Wal-Mart, but that place still annoys me so I don't go), the state wine and spirits store (hehe, if you drink get prepared for some of the stupidest alcohol retailing laws in the country), not really a lot else on a truly regular basis, although there are plenty of other stores there that satisfy the less regular basis.

Compared to McKnightmare, Cranberry is not that congested most of the time. (And compared to some places, I guess McKnightmare isn't that congested a lot of the time either.) I came through Cranberry today right at 5:00. Now, there was traffic coming out of parts of Thorn Hill industrial park trying to get through the Freedom Rd/Rt 19 intersection, looked like. But that dies down after a little while, and it's only weekdays. That is worse than Saturdays, just right then around 5 or 5:15pm, but after about 6:00 on weekdays there won't be congestion in Cranberry. I've been through there many times at that time of day.

The places we've talked up today are all to the north and slightly west of the city. I don't travel in the south as much (you'll find that a lot around here, even moreso among the natives who really can go years without traveling across rivers or over certain hills ), but certain places seem to get more congested. Many parts are also farther from freeways which doesn't always help for getting around. I also think it's harder to find larger spaces as close to the city. I think you would have to keep going farther in most cases to find such space out there. Both south and east have tunnels blocking the ways into the city.

Of course, I'm not sure we can offer you a spot that has less of a sprawl feel but still more of a space and decent schools, in your price range. It doesn't sound like that's particularly going to matter to you, but I don't know. In all these areas you're going to be driving to your shopping, driving to everything. Your house itself needn't be in the middle of sprawl, which is nice, but you're going to be going through it and making use of it on a regular basis.

[touretteboy65]

Originally Posted by greg42

Pittsburgh is pretty light on traffic compared to a lot of large cities. I can't specifically speak to Orlando rush hour as I didn't come through there at rush hour or anything.

See, what you just wrote is kind of what I assumed in the beginning, that you wouldn't necessarily be commuting daily to downtown and would only want it near for occasional trips.

So I guess the question is, what do you consider a necessity, leaving aside the house space, yard space and schools that have already been fairly well established? You said shopping, restaurants and movie theater. Well, what sorts of these? Cranberry is pretty much typical sprawl. You've got your big box chain stores, smaller stores and mainly chain restaurants, although there are a few independent places both shops and dining. Some of the chains are local or regional. The movie theater is older, state of the art before stadium seating became common. It's no longer part of a chain, but I recently saw some evidence that they may be doing renovation (roll off dumpster around the side). For other movie theaters you wouldn't really be driving towards downtown anyway (except for something like the Pittsburgh Filmmakers, you know, arty stuff) but instead to another suburb. The newest one is at Settler's Ridge in Robinson.

I think Cranberry and next door Seven Fields serves fairly well for most everyday stuff. It does not (and probably won't for a while because the plans fell through) have a large regional mall with Sears/JCP/Macy's. For that you have to go to Ross Park Mall (or the less upscale Beaver Valley or Butler Valley malls, or wherever else you choose to drive that day, such as Robinson, the drives probably aren't a lot different, just depends upon which mix of additional stuff you want). Now that is congestion, McKnight Road where Ross Park Mall and the closer in north hills shopping district is located. But then, I don't find I need a mall like that very often, so that being a little more inconvenient to get to is not a problem for me. What do I need frequently? Giant Eagle (the dominant regional grocery chain), Target (or Wal-Mart, but that place still annoys me so I don't go), the state wine and spirits store (hehe, if you drink get prepared for some of the stupidest alcohol retailing laws in the country), not really a lot else on a truly regular basis, although there are plenty of other stores there that satisfy the less regular basis.

Compared to McKnightmare, Cranberry is not that congested most of the time. (And compared to some places, I guess McKnightmare isn't that congested a lot of the time either.) I came through Cranberry today right at 5:00. Now, there was traffic coming out of parts of Thorn Hill industrial park trying to get through the Freedom Rd/Rt 19 intersection, looked like. But that dies down after a little while, and it's only weekdays. That is worse than Saturdays, just right then around 5 or 5:15pm, but after about 6:00 on weekdays there won't be congestion in Cranberry. I've been through there many times at that time of day.

The places we've talked up today are all to the north and slightly west of the city. I don't travel in the south as much (you'll find that a lot around here, even moreso among the natives who really can go years without traveling across rivers or over certain hills ), but certain places seem to get more congested. Many parts are also farther from freeways which doesn't always help for getting around. I also think it's harder to find larger spaces as close to the city. I think you would have to keep going farther in most cases to find such space out there. Both south and east have tunnels blocking the ways into the city.

Of course, I'm not sure we can offer you a spot that has less of a sprawl feel but still more of a space and decent schools, in your price range. It doesn't sound like that's particularly going to matter to you, but I don't know. In all these areas you're going to be driving to your shopping, driving to everything. Your house itself needn't be in the middle of sprawl, which is nice, but you're going to be going through it and making use of it on a regular basis.

Well, as far as the movie theaters are concerned, I would like to be within a few miles of several so that there's a variety of films playing at any given time. I imagine the theaters you speak of are multiplex? As far as the shopping is concerned, I know my wife is pretty concerned with the quality of the food stores, as am I. I particulary get turned off when I walk into a dirty food store or one that seems to have been built from the '50s that hasn't seen a lick of renovation or upkeep. Retail is a plus, too. We like the Target stores, not so much Walmart. Shopping malls? Well, those that are contemporary and offer a variety of choice, not flea store quality. I do a majority of my shopping online, especially during the holidays. Free shipping and no tax? Are you kidding me? Why drive and put up with all the hassle when it's delivered to your home at no charge? Regardless, having access to stores and services is important when it has to be bought or repaired right away. I'm big on Home Depot, for I do practically all the work on the home myself. I'm no Bob Vila, but I love to do as much of the work myself to save $$$ and for a sense of pride when it's done. If there's one thing I enjoy the most though, is time at home. When my wife and I can sit in our backyard and listen to the quietness of it all or just the normal buzz of a neighborhood, we're happy. If we're having to raise our voices because of loud music, traffic, unruly neighbors, forget it. With our home here, we renovated it and created a really nice yard that makes it a nice getaway without having to leave. That's what we're looking for, but with better weather conditions than heat and humidity we experience here. I don't mind finding a house that needs some work, as long as it's located in a good area.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Copanut

You're right, I made it from the Park to Downtown Pgh on McKnight road in 42 minutes. Who are you kidding?

I know you disagree, but many Pittsburghers feel that the South Hills is very congested---not just for driving downtown----but for driving around for errands and such. The North Hills is more spread out. It's not as built up. The zNorth Hills highways are less congested than Route 51 and other highways in the South Hills. The side roads in the North Hills have less traffic than the side roads in the South Hills. You KNOW this is true. It's just a fact that the South Hills was developed decades and decades and decades and decades before the North Hills. The North Hills still has lots of land and undeveloped areas. The housing is father apart in MORE of the townships than in the South Hills.

And we know you like Mt. Lebo but the OP wants a house with an acre of land. Mt. Lebo is more of an urban feel compared to what he wants. It might be a suburban township, but you're always recommending it for people who want a safe suburban town that has an urban feel. That's fairly accurate too. However, Mt. Lebo houses are closer together than houses in most North Hills townships. The roads are narrower. The traffic is maddening.

As you said----good school districts are in both the North Hills and the South Hills. But the OP wants more than just a good school district. So if good school districts are in the North Hills THEN WHY on earth push the South Hills? People who have lived there can't stand the congestion. (That might not be how you felt when you lived there, but it's a common complain about Pittsburghers that can't be ignored.) Someone even posted in this thread----who lived there for a few years and couldn't stand the traffic----but you want to encourage the OP to move there when he wants to be in the area with the least congestion. It doesn't make sense.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I know you disagree, but many Pittsburghers feel that the South Hills is very congested---not just for driving downtown----but for driving around for errands and such. The North Hills is more spread out. It's not as built up. The zNorth Hills highways are less congested than Route 51 and other highways in the South Hills. The side roads in the North Hills have less traffic than the side roads in the South Hills. You KNOW this is true. It's just a fact that the South Hills was developed decades and decades and decades and decades before the North Hills. The North Hills still has lots of land and undeveloped areas. The housing is father apart in MORE of the townships than in the South Hills.

And we know you like Mt. Lebo but the OP wants a house with an acre of land. Mt. Lebo is more of an urban feel compared to what he wants. It might be a suburban township, but you're always recommending it for people who want a safe suburban town that has an urban feel. That's fairly accurate too. However, Mt. Lebo houses are closer together than houses in most North Hills townships. The roads are narrower. The traffic is maddening.

As you said----good school districts are in both the North Hills and the South Hills. But the OP wants more than just a good school district. So if good school districts are in the North Hills THEN WHY on earth push the South Hills? People who have lived there can't stand the congestion. (That might not be how you felt when you lived there, but it's a common complain about Pittsburghers that can't be ignored.) Someone even posted in this thread----who lived there for a few years and couldn't stand the traffic----but you want to encourage the OP to move there when he wants to be in the area with the least congestion. It doesn't make sense.

You're right, South Hills area is FAR more congested than North Hills. It's also congested at any given time of the day, unlike say McKnight Road, which is usually only really bad at rush hour.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by touretteboy65

Well, as far as the movie theaters are concerned, I would like to be within a few miles of several so that there's a variety of films playing at any given time. I imagine the theaters you speak of are multiplex?

You can have access to two movie theaters in many townships in the North Hills. Some are father away than others. For instance, you can be pretty much in the middle of two movie theaters if you lived in Shaler---the Waterworks Cinimas near Aspinwall and the Showcase Cinimas on McKnight.

Originally Posted by touretteboy65

As far as the shopping is concerned, I know my wife is pretty concerned with the quality of the food stores, as am I. I particulary get turned off when I walk into a dirty food store or one that seems to have been built from the '50s that hasn't seen a lick of renovation or upkeep.

Our major grocery store chain isn't dirty. Giant Eagle stores are modern, large, clean and brightly lit. The North Hills is the first suburban area that will get a Whole Foods store. There is a Whole Foods and Trader Joes in the East End.

Originally Posted by touretteboy65

Retail is a plus, too. We like the Target stores, not so much Walmart.

The North Hills has multiple Target stores. I don't believe that the South Hills has a Target, except for the one at the Waterfront which I'd argue is more East than South even though it's across a river.

Originally Posted by touretteboy65

Shopping malls? Well, those that are contemporary and offer a variety of choice, not flea store quality. I do a majority of my shopping online, especially during the holidays. Free shipping and no tax? Are you kidding me? Why drive and put up with all the hassle when it's delivered to your home at no charge? Regardless, having access to stores and services is important when it has to be bought or repaired right away. I'm big on Home Depot

All suburbs (north south east west) have contemporary malls with quality stores. The North Hills does have the only stores in the region for some upscale retailers like Nordstrom, Coach, Burberry, etc. There are Home Depots convenient to almost anywhere you would choose in Allegheny County.

[greg42]

I don't count that old Showcase Cinemas on McKnight. Build it way back when and milk it for all it's worth, that's what those guys did. They don't care about this market. The one in Monroeville closed, and the one in Robinson will probably close too now that Cinemark opened at Settler's Ridge.

The Cranberry Cinema is on its way down, too, unless they are renovating it. There are 8 screens there I believe. There's a much newer 12-screen Cinemark near the Beaver Valley mall, and the brand new one in Robinson has 16 screens. It's actually pretty easy to get to the Robinson shopping area from the I-79 corridor now that they've completed the interchange that long had "missing ramps". So Cranberry to Robinson can take around 20 minutes or thereabouts.

But, if the movie theater is so important that you're going there every week or more often, you might actually want to be closer to a better one, than, say, the area directly around Cranberry, where you wouldn't be too close to a decent alternative. If you're far enough east (as in possibly Richland or West Deer), then the ones at Waterworks or Pittsburgh Mills become potentially convenient. They're all multiplexes; there aren't too many one or two screen places left around here. (There's a nicely restored largeish single auditorium in Oakmont.)

The thing about the way retail works in Pittsburgh is that there aren't too many roads with place after place or stuff, then drive a mile, then more stuff, then drive a mile. The sprawl doesn't work like that here because of the topography and rivers. The hills and rivers, and of course where the highways go, keep people from wanting to drive too far. So what we have are scattered clusters of sprawl instead. Most major retailers have figured out they need to locate in almost all of these places. Only a few real magnets have fewer locations. If you like Costco, for instance, there are only 3 in the area at present (including Cranberry; even with just two of us we have a membership because it's only 5 miles from the house).

I've realized more recently as I've traveled more in the US that the quality and selection of regional grocer Giant Eagle is pretty darned good, even if the competition around here isn't really up to it. There's basically no competition that's close; the only thing they're competing on is price. Giant Eagle's own Market District concept, particularly the new purpose-built store in Robinson, is impressive in its own right against just about anything else I've ever seen, including the largest Whole Foods, etc. It's not the same as that, but it's equally impressive in slightly different ways. Sticking with Cranberry, though, you also have just next door in Seven Fields a new branch of a 3-store local chain called McGinnis Sisters. Great store for different reasons, more local, more personal, not huge enough to get everything but some of the things they do there are higher grade than your typical chain. And yes, the second area Whole Foods will open down the road in Wexford in 2011.

Home Depot, I hear you, though I usually go to Lowe's first. From my house it's about a toss-up which place I go. Home Depot is by itself, though, whereas Lowe's is next to Target. This is all in Cranberry; they're practically around the corner from each other. And it's not the only place in the Pittsburgh area where they are that close to each other. And I really hear you on online shopping, but there's always common recurring supplies I don't buy that way, which is mostly what Target is for.

One thing that's tough out here is seeking out more independent retailers. There are some, and we stop sometimes at smaller grocery and farm store type places down off the I-79 Wexford exit. And McGinnis, that's small enough really to think of as independent. I buy cat food at a couple of different independent pet supply stores. It's even harder in many suburbs to get too many interesting independent restaurants amid the chains (you're fine, perhaps, if you're looking for indie pizza places and maybe Italian or Chinese, but otherwise not so much), but even that is getting a little better. It's not that I find this necessary for everything, but sometimes I wish there were options for certain types of items. They tend to be specialized, though, which means they need to be somewhere with a little more population density I guess.

It is what you make of it. It's a little different in my case. Since the two of us work in Pittsburgh, we sometimes use that to our advantage, making stops for shopping (grocery or otherwise) down there on the way home from work. Or, sometimes we make a special trip someplace, even for something relatively small. But I don't think that's uncommon for most places. No matter how much you try to have everything within a few miles, there will always be an exception. Ultimately you'll probably have to rank things in order of importance as I don't think any one place will be absolutely perfect. But I think you can get close.

[fleetiebelle]

I don't believe that the South Hills has a Target, except for the one at the Waterfront which I'd argue is more East than South even though it's across a river.

Just FYI, there's one near Century III, and they're building one at South Hills Village within the next year or so.

[greg42]

Interesting, I did a map search for 1+ acre and there are more for sale in NW Allgheny County and in eastern Beaver County than in SW Butler County. That surprises me. Not too many selling those in Cranberry and surrounding area of Butler County.

Here's a 2+ acre place, 4BR, 2.5BA in Cranberry, 250k list: Cranberry Twp Real Estate - 305 Vandivort Dr, Cranberry Twp, PA, 16066 (link fixed)

Although, go to 1 acre and you can pay 150k instead (I'm guessing condition is less as well): Cranberry Twp Real Estate - 3197 Unionville, Cranberry Twp, PA, 16066

Now most of the Allegheny County houses are 3BR/2BA, so that makes a difference, but seeing a number of 1 acre listings at sometimes 200k or less, that's pretty good if you want to be a little closer in or would like to have North Allegheny, Hampton (in at least one case) or Fox Chapel (in at least one case) schools. These are among the local districts that were noted recently in US News in an article with national scope. (I think there were 4, and the other was Upper St Clair.)

Depending upon how you look at it, some of these places may be less convenient for everyday stuff, even if they are technically closer to the city. But the several I see in Franklin Park, for example, a couple of those are fairly rural but still pretty close to necessary shopping and such. Example: Franklin Park Real Estate - 2370 N Rochester Road, Franklin Park, PA, 15143 Congestion probably not too much additional factor except at the worst times of morning or afternoon (same as Cranberry).

There are few 1+ acre listings in the south areas, but this 5BR/3BA, 1 acre 250k in Upper St Clair gets you into that area: Upper St. Clair Real Estate - 2519 Fife Drive, Upper St. Clair, PA, 15241 Or, there's even this 3BR/2BA 1 acre looking rather out of place in Mt Lebanon: Mt. Lebanon Real Estate - 691 Kelso Road, Mt. Lebanon, PA, 15243 So I guess they do exist, just not too many, or at least not that many on the market.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by touretteboy65

If the area we choose to live offers what we're needing, driving to Pittsburgh will only be necessary to take advantage of big events, such as concerts, pro games, museums, or sight seeing. That being said, I'm not too overly concerned with how long it takes to drive to Pittsburgh downtown. We're content if the town has movie theaters, restaurants, good shopping, etc., that will take care of our everyday needs. When we choose to drive into Pittsburgh, it will only be during the times I discussed above. We do the same here in Oviedo when we have to drive to Orlando to go to a concert or attraction, and the drive doesn't bother me. As long as the area offers good schools and neighborhoods, everything else will pretty much take care of itself. When you all discuss the area of Cranberry and its congestion, are you talking major congestion? People's definition of congestion varies from one to another. I've been to towns where residents complain about traffic, and I find it laughable, compared to what I'm used to in Orlando. It's something that obviously I need to see for myself to get a good idea what I'm willing to tolerate.

Cranberry, according to my mom who still lives there, has a lot of congestion at the beginning of the work day, end of the work day and at lunch. My mom has all these back ways figured out, some of them go behind industrial buildings through parking lots. She can't STAND traffic at all. Or sitting at stop lights. Planning an outing to the grocery store, the library is rather like planning and the mall to stop at Paneras is not unlike the planning that went into D-Day.

BUT -- I come from Oakland CA and I don't hit traffic at all in my little commute and I didn't find Cranberry that congested. Lots of cars, but they seemed to move.