Do You Think Pittsburgh Can Avoid A BOOM (Beaver Falls, Beaver: school, live)

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Sometimes "tongue-in-cheek" degenerates into total nastiness. That's what I was cautioning against.

Sure, I see your point, and my sense of humor sometimes borders on 1950s tattoo removal, so...

On a personal level, I have actually LIKED most Texans I have met. Most Californians too....

I agree with the emerging consensus that any boom to the Burgh is more likely to involve people from elsewhere in the East. It just makes sense. The Californian thing will be something to watch though, because I have found that folks leaving that huge state are pretty specific about where they move and do not move, at least in large numbers.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So there has been lots of talk recently about suburbs trying to develop along more small-town lines as opposed to sprawl (and indeed some existing sprawlish suburbs are trying to figure out how to retrofit themselves to move onto the small-town model). So I think getting on that bandwagon would be ideal for Beaver County, and in fact I think that model is more plausible in a case like Beaver County than in many cases (I'm somewhat skeptical about retrofitting, and even many new developments, really pulling this off as well as existing, organic, small towns and urban areas).

Some of the old mill towns in Beaver County actually had thriving downtowns at one time, Beaver Falls and Aliquippa for two. A lot of the others had small downtowns with a few stores, professional offices, etc. Beaver currently has a downtown with a lot of restaurants (probably b/c it is the county seat), but not a lot of stores where you can actually buy clothes and other household needs. I do recall a hardware store there. My point is that it wouldn't be too hard to "retrofit" some of these places, although parking is always an issue with downtowns. When I was a kid, we often went to downtown BF on the bus, but shopping by bus isn't very popular these days. The "boom" will have to come first, though.

[BrianTH]

Yeah, that is part of why I am somewhat skeptical about retrofitting, at least as applied to a case like Pittsburgh's. Retrofitting involves things like reconfiguring street plans into grids, changing building codes to allow denser areas, and in general all this stuff which may be more expensive than just starting with a greenfield site. But in economically-depressed small towns with more dignified histories, a lot of the fundamental stuff is already in place, so they can get the desired result more quickly and cheaply if the demand is there. And then there is still all the excess capacity for redevelopment and infill in Pittsburgh itself.

Now in some places this may make sense because most of the older towns and most of the central neighborhoods have already been redeveloped. But again, in a place like Pittsburgh, that isn't nearly the case right now.

[TelecasterBlues]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Sure, I see your point, and my sense of humor sometimes borders on 1950s tattoo removal, so...

On a personal level, I have actually LIKED most Texans I have met. Most Californians too....

I agree with the emerging consensus that any boom to the Burgh is more likely to involve people from elsewhere in the East. It just makes sense. The Californian thing will be something to watch though, because I have found that folks leaving that huge state are pretty specific about where they move and do not move, at least in large numbers.

I'll say this much about Texans...the whole "cowboy hat, don't mess with us, redneck, let's go ride a bull, I bleed red" stereotype that EVERYBODY along the east coast associates with Texas is dead wrong and pretty horrible. Yeah, if you head off into the middle of nowhere, out in a small town in West Texas, then you'll run into some pretty creepy people that fit that type of mentality. But as long as you stick to anywhere that's populated, especially in the bigger cities, then you're dealing with people from all over the country and nothing of the sort. Texans from Austin/San Antonio are some of the nicest, warmest, welcoming, laid back, sharp, educated, and "fun" people that I've ever met. They make most of the country seem like it doesn't know how to enjoy life. Head into Dallas/Ft. Worth, and you'll get a bit of that annoying "Texas Pride" type of deal and more of a stuck up attitude..but it's still not anything to really rag on or be annoyed with, and definately not any worse than "Stiller Pride" on the scale of annoyance.

California.....now the orange county thing annoys me to no end. There's a crazy influx of Californians relocating to Texas and apparently nobody likes it, haha. There's all kinds of stuff over on the Austin/San Antonio forums about it if you run a search, kind of funny.

[Copanut]

I've been up in the Beaver County area recently and to think that a "re-birth" may occur with small town living is quite frankly a dream. Back in the day, all those small towns were prosperous, which I'm sure Kat can verify. Take a drive along Rte 65 now through Ambridge, Harmony, Baden, Conway, Freedom, Rochester, and Beaver. Most would only care to live in Beaver, at least with the courthouse and jail there are some jobs available. All those small towns at one time were very prosperous, heck, you could live there your whole life, make a great living, and never have to go Dahntahn for anything. Not so these days.

I could make the same case going up the East corridor: Braddock, Rankin, Swissvale, East Pittsburgh and on and on.

Small towns are great, when there are jobs available for its citizens.

[jimmyev]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Small towns are great, when there are jobs available for its citizens.

These towns aren't up in the Allegheny National Forest somewhere. Highways, such as PA60/I-376 and the turnpike, plus a plethora of other roads, link these towns to jobs. Lots of jobs. In twenty minutes or less.

Towns like these are one of Pittsburgh's greatest assets. People move to suburbs for a small-town feel. After a few decades they figured out that tract housing and traffic-clogged roads don't provide the small-town feel they were looking for. So now they've started building faux-small towns on prairies within commuting distance of regional job centers. Southwestern Pennsylvania is full of real small-towns within commuting distance of regional job centers. These towns actually have bakeries that aren't called Pandora, and Italian restaurants without the name Olive Garden.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I've been up in the Beaver County area recently and to think that a "re-birth" may occur with small town living is quite frankly a dream. Back in the day, all those small towns were prosperous, which I'm sure Kat can verify. Take a drive along Rte 65 now through Ambridge, Harmony, Baden, Conway, Freedom, Rochester, and Beaver. Most would only care to live in Beaver, at least with the courthouse and jail there are some jobs available. All those small towns at one time were very prosperous, heck, you could live there your whole life, make a great living, and never have to go Dahntahn for anything. Not so these days.

I could make the same case going up the East corridor: Braddock, Rankin, Swissvale, East Pittsburgh and on and on.

Small towns are great, when there are jobs available for its citizens.

Oh, yes, these towns were very prosperous in the 50s/60s when I was growing up there. Lots of jobs, well paying jobs in the mills. Beaver Falls' business district was fairly extensive; you didn't need to go out of town to buy much. I do agree that it is unlikely that people will "gentrify" these towns when there is excess capacity in Allegheny County.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

ScranBarre doesn't like being as far out as Fairfax, which is something like 15 miles from Downtown DC. Federick is about 50 miles and Hagerstown about 70 miles, and there is brutal rushhour traffic on the DC end.

And neither is supercheap, particularly not Frederick.

I'm in Reston, which is about 22 miles from Downtown DC (with no easy way to get there besides driving).

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

These towns actually have bakeries that aren't called Panera, and Italian restaurants without the name Olive Garden.

Fixed for you. I should know because I live in one of Virginia's "town centers"---the solution to give these beached sprawling people a retrofitted downtown (albeit one that hasn't worked out very well).

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I was reading about Cranberry recently...and sounds like the epitome of sprawl. It is also the fastest growing area of Pittsburgh by a long shot.

It always amazes me that there is a demand to live in the middle of sprawl, and the more sprawly it gets, the more people gravitate towards it.

For some reason people are absolutely in love with brand new houses. I have never understood that....and I never will.

I was watching something on HGTV today and the couple were shown a condo in an older building (1970's) as a comp to the one they were selling in order to convince them they were way overpriced. And the woman said -- this is old. This is an old building, filled with old people.

The real estate guy was stunned. He said "How can you say that? You haven't seen a single person in this building."

It was a larger condo, it was a nicer condo -- but she had made the judgement about it, and her judgement stood. It wasn't "brandy spanking new" like her two year old condo was... and therefore was beneath her.

This whole we have to have new is what's behind a lot of the sprawl.

It's sad, too. Cranberry used to be nice.

But to get this back on topic -- I don't know how anyone couldn't look at Cranberry and Wexford and the North Hills and not say Pittsburgh's of not booming on the verge of it .... I saw growth EVERYWHERE when I was home last....