Pittsburgh Int'l Airport slipping slipping slipping.. (Philadelphia, York: to buy, moving, deal)

[grimacista]

I may be wrong, but wasn't part of the reason that the airport got the go-ahead despite its huge costs and lack of upfront commitment from USAir because Tom Foerster really was pushing hard for it? Sounds kid of like the North Shore Connector in that a small group of influential politicians were pushing a hugely expensive project with sketchy guarantees of making the money back.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

as noted, that's waht bankruptcy is for...getting out of contracts you can no longer afford. . . . especially a amrginal company like US Airways in a brutal industry.

Well, that's the problem right there. They got a commitment, but in our economic and legal system, that doesn't mean the money will actually keep coming, particularly not over a span like 30 years.

yep. how much did it cost?

Right about $800 million, as I recall, and that included all sorts of USAir-specific stuff. Just a guess, but I bet we could have gotten a decent, modern airport suitable for our needs for no more than around half that.

just sad it didn't go to something more productive (cough spine line) but yes, it's time to move on, and hopefully learn. I think Charlotte and Philly still have a tenuous relationship within US Airways. I wouldn't be surprised if they would consolidate in charlotte if not for the strong local origin traffic in Philly.

Frankly, I think being a hub airport is overrated. Yeah, lots of jobs and such, plus maybe more direct flights, but at least in Pittsburgh, it also meant uncompetitive pricing.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by grimacista

I may be wrong, but wasn't part of the reason that the airport got the go-ahead despite its huge costs and lack of upfront commitment from USAir because Tom Foerster really was pushing hard for it? Sounds kid of like the North Shore Connector in that a small group of influential politicians were pushing a hugely expensive project with sketchy guarantees of making the money back.

The consensus does seem to be that Foerster was the one who consistently pushed it along. But I once read a bunch of old articles and editorials about it, and it definitely had lots and lots of public support at the time. At least a couple things distinguished it from the NSC. For one thing, we definitely needed to upgrade and expand the airport, so some project along these lines was necessary. For another, it was a LOOOOONG process, and by the time the finances were being nailed down, the basic plans had been in place for years. That's not really an excuse, but I think it helps explain why there wasn't much support for simply starting over.

[Honest Bob]

If I had a job in a place where I didn't have to do anything and I didn't get in trouble when something was done wrong and I had all the vacation and sick pay and all the hours of over time that I wanted to work. I wouldn't go home except to change my underwear once a week.

The people working at the Pitt airport is some of the laziest people that I have ever saw. People working in the help desks - that are bs'n with each other - where you have to interrupt them to ask them a question.

Baggage handlers that goes into the back of an airplane and throws out 100 suitcases - just because the monitor says that 100 suitcases comes off the plane at that stop. They don't care if it is yours, theirs or somebody else's, they get paid by the hour and they don't get fired when they remove the wrong bag.

People walking around with nothing to do.

I swear if I ran that place, I would fire half of them and the other half I would commit to 20 years hard labor at the worst institution that I could find.
Those people are idiots and the best thing that could happen would be for them to close the place. Fire everybody, reopen the place, hire all new people and start with a fresh slate.

There is no reason why every time my brother flies US Air, they have to bust his suitcase.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Well, that's the problem right there. They got a commitment, but in our economic and legal system, that doesn't mean the money will actually keep coming, particularly not over a span like 30 years.

yep, though it's a good thing our legal system does allow for it. does seem like a deal pushed by a select group.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Frankly, I think being a hub airport is overrated. Yeah, lots of jobs and such, plus maybe more direct flights, but at least in Pittsburgh, it also meant uncompetitive pricing.

Absolutely it is. the hub is the same everywhere. when US Airways had an unwritten lock on PHL, traffic at the airport was half what it is today, and it was one of the most expensive airports in the country. people drove to newark, BWI to get cheap flights. It wasn't until southwest finally broke the monopoly that prices plummeted. Heck, it's still happening today. they just launched a PHL_BOS flight, USAir had been charging $600 RT, now it's less than half that. I don't know if you remember, but flying form PIT to PHL (or vice versa) was extremely expensive, now you can do it for $80 RT+ taxes and fees. Hubs are still necessary in many cases for international flights but I definitely think their days are done for most domestic flights, at least between major cities (not for places like binghamton)

[BrianTH]

Back in the day, I was in Hyde Park in Chicago and my wife was flying out from Pittsburgh nearly every weekend. A low-cost airline (I want to say AirTran) opened up a direct route to Midway, which was considerably more convenient and cheaper than USAir's flight to O'Hare. USAir then opened up a direct, low cost route to Midway, and AirTran pulled out. Then USAir closed their Midway route back down, and we were back to using O'Hare (for more money).

To me that will always represent life under the hub model.

[greg42]

Yes, if it was in the 90s it was AirTran to Midway. I flew on that a couple times myself. And that's exactly the kind of stuff USAir always did.

I don't understand why anyone from this area still flies on USAir for anything. Useless Air is more like it.

[BrianTH]

This was like 2002-04, but I do think it was AirTran.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This was like 2002-04, but I do think it was AirTran.

Oh, didn't think it lasted that long, but maybe it did. Southwest started in 2005, and I thought there was a decent gap of a few years at least between when AirTran stopped the Midway service and Southwest started ops at PIT.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by greg42

Oh, didn't think it lasted that long, but maybe it did. Southwest started in 2005, and I thought there was a decent gap of a few years at least between when AirTran stopped the Midway service and Southwest started ops at PIT.

As I recall it came and went relatively quickly. So this wouldn't have been continuous back to the 1990s.