Nothing Inbetween

[CaptainObvious]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Quit trying to live the extravegant life by looking at huge, expensive houses. Get yourself into a starter home.

I'm not trying to get into huge, expensive houses. In fact, I prefer a smaller home over a larger one, even if I had $10M to spend. It is pretty well established that I have $150k-$175k to spend on a home and currently rent...that is not me trying to live an "extravagant life" whatsoever. This topic originated with me pointing out (and doing some complaining) that it appears there are crappy "starter homes" at the low end, and "huge expensive" homes at the top end, with little in between. Just because this is my first home, doesn't mean it has to be a "starter home" in the traditional sense. I am older, wiser, and in a better financial situation than most first-time home buyers. So, I want my first home to be one I like in a nice area and preferably newer without hassle of ongoing "fixin uppin". Big is not important to me- 1,600 sq. ft. would be plenty. My original post was posing the question "So, where are some nice, smallish, newer homes in that price range because I was having trouble finding them.

THE END ALL BE ALL SUMMARY:

Here, I think, is the bottom line: I've done lots and lots of research on housing in other cities. I've gone so far as to fly down and visit many areas in the south (where the weather is more to my liking ), and here is the problem with the Pittsburgh housing market: In general, Pittsburgh housing is cheap, this is true. But I don't care about the areas such as East Liberty, The Hill, or parts of the Northside that are bringing that average down. I care about nicer (in my opinion) communities. The statistics are skewed--just like the "average household income is 38,000". Who do you know with two working members of the family that only bring in 38,000? Exactly. We, in middle class America tend to associate ourselves with other middle class folks. I don't care that Pittsburgh housing is cheap and Pittsburgh wages are low. I am not one of the low wage earners, and am not looking for a cheap house in a low-wage area. There are so many low-wage, low-cost areas in Western PA (thanks to the sluggish local economy and abundance of poverty) that there is now a very high premium on the nice spots. The one place where prices continue to rise is in these nice areas (all the ones I mentioned in a previous post) because they are the only few bastions of niceness left around here- the only place people want to live! In Atlanta, for example, there is an abundance- literally an abundance- of nice, newer, houses in the $175k price range in very nice neighborhoods (similar to maybe, O'Hara Twp or Hampton) only 15 minutes from the city. In Charleston SC, housing is a bit more expensive than Atlanta, but same thing goes there. Why? Because the community as a whole has more "nice" areas than Pittsburgh does. With more to choose from, prices drop. We might have a few thousand houses at any one time for sale in the Pittsburgh metro, but only a couple hundred in "nice areas", therefore making "nice houses in nice areas" relatively scarce (and therefore expensive) In some other cities, out of the few thousand for sale, a few thousand are in nice spots. Relators know this, that's why there is such lure of, say, Fox Chapel. In Atlanta they've got 25 "Fox Chapels" to pick from, so aren't willing to plop down as much as Pittsburghers do to have a nice home close to the city. Charlotte, Raleigh, Savannah, and Jacksonville are the same way. There aren't three or four neighborhoods everyone knows about, where all the wealth resides in those cities- there are literally dozens of nice areas. And the nice areas are larger too (due in part because of Pittsburgh's strange topography). There is little discussion, especially in the suburbs) of "that street" being good, but "this one" is bad. Take, for example, the suburb of Summerville- about 25 minutes outside of Charleston. The WHOLE TOWN is relatively nice. There are a few low points here and there, but you've got literally thousands of nice, middle-class homes in my price range spread over miles. Compare that to, say, Mt Lebo (don't get too close to Dormont) or Fox Chapel (don't cross down into the Shaler area) or Kennedy Township (dont go down into the Rocks). There are just not enough nicer areas in Western PA to keep average housing affordable... Places like SanFran, Chicago, NYC...those places are expensive because there is literally nowhere left to build- so, that is a different type of market all together.

In Western PA: very nice homes are considered to be "dream homes". Average run-of-the-mill homes are considered "very nice". Fixer-uppers are considered to be average. And condemned shacks are considered to be "fixer-uppers" that need a little TLC. Since most of the homes fall into the lower categories in Western PA, there is a premium on the good stuff. Elsewhere, they consider dream homes to be dream homes, and average homes to be average homes- the prices are lower because there is more normal stuff to choose from.

Sorry for the novel.

Cap

[tommygoat]

Looks like you'll have to get lucky, or move?

[CaptainObvious]

Originally Posted by tommygoat

Looks like you'll have to get lucky, or move?

That's what I think, yes. I'm picky. And it is hard to be picky here is Western PA. Other cities offer newer, better kept homes where the my pickiness gives me something to choose from.

Cap

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

I'm not trying to get into huge, expensive houses. In fact, I prefer a smaller home over a larger one, even if I had $10M to spend. It is pretty well established that I have $150k-$175k to spend on a home and currently rent...that is not me trying to live an "extravagant life" whatsoever. This topic originated with me pointing out (and doing some complaining) that it appears there are crappy "starter homes" at the low end, and "huge expensive" homes at the top end, with little in between. Just because this is my first home, doesn't mean it has to be a "starter home" in the traditional sense. I am older, wiser, and in a better financial situation than most first-time home buyers. So, I want my first home to be one I like in a nice area and preferably newer without hassle of ongoing "fixin uppin". Big is not important to me- 1,600 sq. ft. would be plenty. My original post was posing the question "So, where are some nice, smallish, newer homes in that price range because I was having trouble finding them.

THE END ALL BE ALL SUMMARY:

Here, I think, is the bottom line: I've done lots and lots of research on housing in other cities. I've gone so far as to fly down and visit many areas in the south (where the weather is more to my liking ), and here is the problem with the Pittsburgh housing market: In general, Pittsburgh housing is cheap, this is true. But I don't care about the areas such as East Liberty, The Hill, or parts of the Northside that are bringing that average down. I care about nicer (in my opinion) communities. The statistics are skewed--just like the "average household income is 38,000". Who do you know with two working members of the family that only bring in 38,000? Exactly. We, in middle class America tend to associate ourselves with other middle class folks. I don't care that Pittsburgh housing is cheap and Pittsburgh wages are low. I am not one of the low wage earners, and am not looking for a cheap house in a low-wage area. There are so many low-wage, low-cost areas in Western PA (thanks to the sluggish local economy and abundance of poverty) that there is now a very high premium on the nice spots. The one place where prices continue to rise is in these nice areas (all the ones I mentioned in a previous post) because they are the only few bastions of niceness left around here- the only place people want to live! In Atlanta, for example, there is an abundance- literally an abundance- of nice, newer, houses in the $175k price range in very nice neighborhoods (similar to maybe, O'Hara Twp or Hampton) only 15 minutes from the city. In Charleston SC, housing is a bit more expensive than Atlanta, but same thing goes there. Why? Because the community as a whole has more "nice" areas than Pittsburgh does. With more to choose from, prices drop. We might have a few thousand houses at any one time for sale in the Pittsburgh metro, but only a couple hundred in "nice areas", therefore making "nice houses in nice areas" relatively scarce (and therefore expensive) In some other cities, out of the few thousand for sale, a few thousand are in nice spots. Relators know this, that's why there is such lure of, say, Fox Chapel. In Atlanta they've got 25 "Fox Chapels" to pick from, so aren't willing to plop down as much as Pittsburghers do to have a nice home close to the city. Charlotte, Raleigh, Savannah, and Jacksonville are the same way. There aren't three or four neighborhoods everyone knows about, where all the wealth resides in those cities- there are literally dozens of nice areas. And the nice areas are larger too (due in part because of Pittsburgh's strange topography). There is little discussion, especially in the suburbs) of "that street" being good, but "this one" is bad. Take, for example, the suburb of Summerville- about 25 minutes outside of Charleston. The WHOLE TOWN is relatively nice. There are a few low points here and there, but you've got literally thousands of nice, middle-class homes in my price range spread over miles. Compare that to, say, Mt Lebo (don't get too close to Dormont) or Fox Chapel (don't cross down into the Shaler area) or Kennedy Township (dont go down into the Rocks). There are just not enough nicer areas in Western PA to keep average housing affordable... Places like SanFran, Chicago, NYC...those places are expensive because there is literally nowhere left to build- so, that is a different type of market all together.

In Western PA: very nice homes are considered to be "dream homes". Average run-of-the-mill homes are considered "very nice". Fixer-uppers are considered to be average. And condemned shacks are considered to be "fixer-uppers" that need a little TLC. Since most of the homes fall into the lower categories in Western PA, there is a premium on the good stuff. Elsewhere, they consider dream homes to be dream homes, and average homes to be average homes- the prices are lower because there is more normal stuff to choose from.

Sorry for the novel.

Cap

Cap,

Sounds like you like the south. You have to follow your heart and live somewhere that feels "right" to you. I love the SF Bay Area where I live now, but I am essentially priced out of the market here. I've visited Seattle, Chicago, Nashville, and Pittsburgh as possible places to relocate and liked all of them. Seattle is a bit pricier than I'd like, but the economy is good, it's incredibly beautiful and I liked the weather. Chicago is great! tons to do. High & low culture and everything in between. and, it's cheaper than Seattle, but not by much. the weather, however leaves a lot to be desired. Nashville has some absolutely beautiful areas and the homes prices are very reasonable. too darn hot for me in the summer. Plus, even though I have friends there and met great people, I just don't feel like the south is a good fit for me. I liked Pittsburgh. It reminded me a lot of San Francisco when I was growing up. SF used to be a working class, union town - boy, has that changed! I felt at home in Pittsburgh. That, combined with the low prices for housing put it on my short list.

I have digressed too much. Basically what I'm trying to say is that even though Nashville was prettier in many ways and the cost of housing was comparable - Pittsburgh suited me better. If you have found an area that suits you and feels like home, that's where you should look.

Good luck!

Julie

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

That's what I think, yes. I'm picky. And it is hard to be picky here is Western PA. Other cities offer newer, better kept homes where the my pickiness gives me something to choose from.

Cap

I think this issue was the subject of another thread a while back about homes not being refurbished very frequently (or not at all). I can tell you it is the same way here in Colorado, at least metro Denver. We looked at many homes that hadn't been updated in many years when looking for our first. We eventually gave up and bought a newer tract house. That may be what you have to do. We were older, too, when we first bought. It doesn't matter. Ya gotta go with what's out there.