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Old 06-18-2015, 09:10 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,080,924 times
Reputation: 14186

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
List the Democrats who ordered our forces into Iraq.

Then list the Pubs who voted against the Iraq Resolution.

Please.

This will help:

House Vote:

Pub: 215 yay 6 nay

Dem: 82 yay 126 nay

Senate Vote:

Pub: 48 yay 1 nay

Dem: 29 yay 21 nay

Summary:

Pub: 263 for, 7 against

Dem: 111 for, 147 against


A simple question. If the dems are SO Innocent why did the DEM Senate majority leader NOT just kill the bill as harry reid did over 300 times.

You DO realize that IF he had killed the bill Bush COULD NOT have invade Iraq?
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Old 06-18-2015, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,466,073 times
Reputation: 24780
Talking Darn those Democrats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
A simple question. If the dems are SO Innocent why did the DEM Senate majority leader NOT just kill the bill as harry reid did over 300 times.

You DO realize that IF he had killed the bill Bush COULD NOT have invade Iraq?

They just couldn't stop Dubya and Chicken Cheney from making the dumbest move in American history. And to this day, the Dubya apologists hold a grudge, while at the same time, claiming it wasn't "a mistake."

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Old 06-18-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,494 posts, read 33,228,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77 View Post

Bush Jr. cleaned up both Reagan and his daddies mess so him, his family, and his newly appointed VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA/HALLIBURTON DICK CHENEY would gain. I am not saying we shouldn't have gone, but we didn't have the planning nor the backing to make it our quest. This war is costing us around $750 billion.
The Insider - Iraq's WMD - Made in America
Reagan's mess? What "mess?" The economy was doing quite well when Reagan left office... a 5.5% unemployment rate, the poverty level less than when he took office (12.8% vs 13.0%), low inflation and a good GDP growth.
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Old 06-18-2015, 02:39 PM
 
11,931 posts, read 6,520,906 times
Reputation: 13910
I think both parties are complicit, but the Democrats were responsible for the LIAR loans, the NINJA loans--no income, no job, no assets, that were a big part in the irresponsible housing bubble where lots of low income people who weren't qualified for loans got them anyway from corrupt mortgage banking and democrat laws made under the auspices of helping poor people. It was Barney Frank who said, "it's racist to ask minorities how much money they make."
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Old 06-18-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,466,073 times
Reputation: 24780
Default How Did GW Bush Cause Our Current Economic Problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I think both parties are complicit, but the Democrats were responsible for the LIAR loans, the NINJA loans--no income, no job, no assets, that were a big part in the irresponsible housing bubble where lots of low income people who weren't qualified for loans got them anyway from corrupt mortgage banking and democrat laws made under the auspices of helping poor people. It was Barney Frank who said, "it's racist to ask minorities how much money they make."

Except for one itsy-bitsy little fact:

The Dems were a minority in congress through all that. They held no committee chairs and the GOP controlled the agenda and the votes. Frank was a "ranking member" of his committee, but he was just one vote with Pubs holding the majority in his committee. Nothing got out that committee that the Pubs didn't approve. Nothing was up for a vote unless the GOP Speaker (Hastert, who's back in the news these days) or the GOP Senate majority leader, Trent Lott brought it to the floor. Nothing got passed in the house or senate that the Pubs didn't vote for.

Reality is harsh.
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,625 posts, read 26,307,471 times
Reputation: 12635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
He didn't accomplish the Great Recession single-handedly.

He had plenty of help from his GOP congress. Tax cuts, trickle-down, and deregulation did the trick. To be entirely fair, it was Clinton, in one of his last acts, who signed the Gramm, Leach, Bliley Act, that took the first BIG step towards unravelling the economy in 2000. He should have vetoed it. Gramm, Leach and Bliley were all three Pubs and their "financial modernization" law, passed by the GOP congress, led to the derivatives and other exotic runaway high risk investing schemes that sunk the economy. We'd all be so much better off today if Clinton had vetoed that thing.

We all know what happened later...



38 Senate Democrats voted for Gramm, Leach, Bliley.

7 senate Democrats voted against it.

In the House, it was 154 to 51.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-1999/s354


I`ll gladly give credit to both Democrats and Republicans who voted against Gramm, Leach, Bliley, but let`s not pretend Democrats didn`t line up to support it.



Tax cuts had nothing to do with the financial crisis of 2008.
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,625 posts, read 26,307,471 times
Reputation: 12635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
I'll put my stats against yours, any day! Espescially since mine come from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and all of yours come from liberal organizations and "reputable" serious publications like Vanity Fair. Really?

OK, let's look at the W Bush economy.

"Publication: Business Wire
Date: Friday, January 4 2008

More Than 8.3 Million Jobs Created Since August 2003 In Longest Continuous Run Of Job Growth On Record

WASHINGTON -- Today, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released new jobs figures - 18,000 jobs created in December. Since August 2003, more than 8.3 million jobs have been created, with more than 1.3 million jobs created throughout 2007. Our economy has now added jobs for 52 straight months - the longest period of uninterrupted job growth on record. The unemployment rate remains low at 5 percent. The U.S. economy benefits from a solid foundation, but we cannot take economic growth for granted and economic indicators have become increasingly mixed. President Bush will continue working with Congress to address the challenges our economy faces and help facilitate long-term economic growth, job growth, and better standards of living for all Americans.

* Real GDP grew at a strong 4.9 percent annual rate in the third quarter of 2007. The economy has now experienced six years of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8 percent a year since 2001.

* Real after-tax per capita personal income has risen by 11.7 percent - an average of more than $3,550 per person - since President Bush took office.

* Over the course of this Administration, productivity growth has averaged 2.6 percent per year. This growth is well above average productivity growth in the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.

By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.

But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”


In addition, he managed to steadily reduce our increase in public debt and our deficit near the end of his final term. It only started to rise again in 2008"




Yes, personal income increased to its highest levels while Bush was in office.

I personally made great money 2001-2005.

NAFTA and the 2000 China Trade Act really did a number on US manufacturing.
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Old 06-18-2015, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,494 posts, read 33,228,746 times
Reputation: 7609
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Well he didn't do any of those things. However he did do some nice things to screw us economically:

2 wars (how much was he pushing for Iraq??? congress voted for it, but he was really trying to sell it)
tax cuts for the rich
didn't do anything to fix a problem that could have easily been foreseen and corrected
It was an across-the-board tax cut. Not just for "the rich."
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Old 06-18-2015, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,494 posts, read 33,228,746 times
Reputation: 7609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
With budgets pretty much exactly what the GOP Presidents wanted
Every balanced-budget Reagan proposed to Congress was declared DOA by (Democrat) Tip O'Neil.
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Except for one itsy-bitsy little fact:

The Dems were a minority in congress through all that. They held no committee chairs and the GOP controlled the agenda and the votes. Frank was a "ranking member" of his committee, but he was just one vote with Pubs holding the majority in his committee. Nothing got out that committee that the Pubs didn't approve. Nothing was up for a vote unless the GOP Speaker (Hastert, who's back in the news these days) or the GOP Senate majority leader, Trent Lott brought it to the floor. Nothing got passed in the house or senate that the Pubs didn't vote for.

Reality is harsh.
and your missing one fact

the HUD rules are a cabinet level rules( not congress) and it was Clinton who set the housing bubble/bust rolling back in 1995

the housing bubble/bust started in 1995 under Clinton

fannie and Freddie...and their RULES SET by HUD

Clinton chief(s) of HUD did it henry Cisneros and Andrew Cuomo in 1995-2000 causing the housing bubble/bust

Defending Home Turf From Attack; Fannie Mae Is Facing Assault By House Panel and Business Rivals
By RICHARD W. STEVENSON
Published: April 22, 2000
Defending Home Turf From Attack - Fannie Mae Is Facing Assault By House Panel and Business Rivals - NYTimes.com

Shareholder owned but federally chartered, it is an odd hybrid that dominates the business of channeling money between lenders and Wall Street by buying mortgages and packaging them into securities. Its chief executive, Franklin D. Raines, is a former White House budget director whose name has been floated by Vice President Al Gore's presidential campaign as a possibility for the No. 2 spot on the Democratic ticket, and its executives have close ties to both parties.

Government-sponsored enterprise debt also is counted as safer than traditional corporate debt by regulators when they assess the financial strength of banks. As a result, many banks have made such debt a big part of their capital base, a situation that has left some regulators and members of Congress speculating about the implications for the financial system if Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac were to get into serious financial trouble.
=========================================

125% Loan: Blessing Or Bane?
By JAY ROMANO
Published: July 13, 1997
RESPONDING to the seemingly insatiable demand by borrowers for ever more exotic forms of credit, some aggressive lenders have brought to market a rather unconventional mortgage product: the 125 percent loan.

With such a loan, homeowners -- even those with less-than-pristine credit -- can borrow up to 125 percent of the market value of their homes by pledging collateral that doesn't exist.

Lenders who make such loans say they are effective credit tools that can be used by homeowners to raise cash for unexpected expenditures, get out from under high-interest credit-card debt or pay for home improvements that will in turn increase the owner's equity.

''The underwriting criteria (from the government) are actually more flexible,'' Mr. Levy said. ''They allow more dinks on your credit and a more narrow spread between what you make and what you pay out.''

And that is just what concerns Mr. Bader of Skyscraper Mortgage.

''The person who couldn't qualify for an ordinary home equity loan at 8 percent is now borrowing even more money at 14 percent,'' Mr. Bader said, adding that anyone thinking about taking out such a loan should contemplate the following:

''What happens if you want to sell your property, and you find that what you owe is more than what your property is worth?''
125% Loan - Blessing Or Bane? - NYTimes.com

=========================

U.S. Proposes Rules to Help House Buyers
Published: March 05, 2000

The federal government has proposed new rules that would make it easier for low-income house buyers to qualify for mortgage loans, a move intended to help blacks and other minorities buy houses.

The proposed rules from the Department of Housing and Urban Development would require two of the largest housing finance companies in the country, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to increase the percentages of overall loans that they offer to lower-income families from the current standard of 42 percent to 48 percent in 2000 and to 50 percent in 2001.

The companies would be required over the next 10 years to buy $2.4 trillion in mortgages from banks and other lenders to assist the 28 million American families with low and moderate incomes. Many of those families are minorities, housing officials said.

''This rule will greatly expand the supply of affordable housing across the country,'' said Housing Secretary Andrew M. Cuomo.

The companies(fannie/freddie) buy mortgages for homes and apartment buildings from banks, savings and loans and other mortgage lenders, and package and sell the loans to investors. When Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae buy mortgages from lenders, they provide the lenders with cash to issue new mortgages.

Under the higher goals, the companies would buy an additional $488.3 billion in mortgages over the next 10 years for seven million more low- and moderate-income families. The new mortgages would be added to the $1.9 trillion in mortgages for about 21 million families that would have been helped by the current standards.

Mr. Cuomo said that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were cooperating with federal regulators on this issue. The Housing Department said it was reviewing fair-lending practices at Fannie Mae. The two companies can do more, Mr. Cuomo said, and that led to the elevated goals.

The requirements for mortgage purchases were last set in 1995. The goals were up for renewal this year, as required by Congress. The housing administration could have lowered the goals or have left them unchanged.
U.S. Proposes Rules to Help House Buyers - NYTimes.com

===========================

this from 1999

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: September 30, 1999


.......... the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.


see the words in bold....very telling

============================

Giving Credit Where Credit Was Denied

Published: June 08, 1997
Giving Credit Where Credit Was Denied - NYTimes.com
Mr. Kent received what his lender, GFI Mortgage Bankers, calls its ''no-doc product'' -- as in no documents needed.

''We've created new products for people who have glitches, hairy credit,'' said Abe Eisner, executive vice president of GFI. ''No-doc means all we need is your name, address and Social Security number, depending on your credit history.''

GFI is a barometer for the industry; its subprime lending currently represents about 25 percent of the company's business. Two years ago, it was 10 percent.

--snip-....

One measure of the expanding subprime market is the number of loans that have been packaged and sold as asset-backed securities -- meaning that investors buy shares in those resold loans and then reap the returns as the mortgages are paid off.

--snip--
According to Jay Siegel, a vice president at Moody's Investor Service: ''Subprime loans have exploded from $7 billion in 1992 to $37 billion in 1996 as a sector of the entire securitized conventional loan market.'' That $37 billion, Mr. Siegel said, represents 11 percent of all the conventional loans that were securitized in 1996, up from 1.4 percent in 1992.
--snip--

--snip--

Even quasi-governmental agencies have primed the subprime pump. The Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) have recently developed computerized underwriting systems that allow lenders to speedily and reliably evaluate an applicant's credit-worthiness. The loans rejected by the automated system are, by definition, subprime.

''In the past, if a loan was rejected by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, that was it,'' Mr. Hornblass said. ''They weren't touching that business.

''But now both agencies have set up arrangements with lending companies that buy those subprime loans coming through the automated systems. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae take a fee, the loans get funneled to a lending company that's willing to buy them, package them and then sell the securities to investors.''

The agencies have also, for the first time, become guarantors of subprime loans. In fact, on May 21, Freddie Mac agreed to guarantee the securitization of $227.3 million in subprime loans originated by the First Union Home Equity Bank.

Several industry analysts point out that the trend toward subprime lending has been a boon to the nation's affordable housing movement. ''There are more subprime opportunities that dovetail well with C.R.A.-required lending,'' said Mr. Gumbinger

--snip--

C.R.A. is the Community Reinvestment Act, a law passed by Congress in 1977 to combat red-lining -- the systematic policy of banks to avoid making loans in poor communities. The law requires Federally regulated banks and savings and loans, but not mortgage banks, to ''help meet the credit needs of communities in which they are chartered.'' If one of those lenders applies to Federal regulatory agencies for a merger or a new charter, it must demonstrate that it has originated a sufficient number of loans in low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.

According to data provided by Douglas Duncan, a senior economist at the Mortgage Bankers Association of America, 19.2 percent of the nation's home loans in 1993 went to minority-group members. By 1995, that share had risen to 22.2 percent.

--snip--

see full article.. Giving Credit Where Credit Was Denied - NYTimes.com

=================
Published: June 25, 2000

Lenders are not required to cancel the insurance for loans approved before July 29, 1999, when the Homeowners Protection Act took effect, but most do, if only to remain in the good graces of Fannie Mae and the similar federal agency, Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation or Freddie Mac. Because these two agencies set the standards for the mortgages they will buy, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have enormous influence over the mortgage market.
The Mortgage Market - Up, Down and Sideways - NYTimes.com

=======================

Published: October 3, 1999

But it got greater impetus in 1994 when Fannie Mae, the nation's largest purchaser of mortgages from banks and other home-mortgage originators, introduced pilot programs to stimulate the home sales market in New York and Boston. Fannie Mae packages these loans with other mortgages as securities for sale to investors. Creating a market to which mortgage originators can sell their loans encourages them to lend more

There have been 14,000 Partnership home buyers since 1986, and more and more of the newer houses are three-families. Nowadays the loans are normally sold to Fannie Mae, and the underwriting for them follows Fannie Mae's standards.
1999 new york times
Easing the Rules for Mortgage Approval - NYTimes.com


===============
hmmmmmmmm

Keeping Homeowners in Their Homes - NYTimes.com

...In 1995, the Clinton Administration changed the law governing GSEs' mission -- the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) -- to encourage more lending in poor neighborhoods.

Previously, the CRA directed government to monitor banks' lending practices to make sure they did not violate fair lending rules in poor neighborhoods.
--snip--
....With the 1995 change, the government published each bank's lending activity and started giving bank ratings based primarily upon the amount of lending it performed in poor neighborhoods.
--snip--
These changes empowered community organizations, such as ACORN, to pressure banks to increase lending activities in poorer neighborhoods -- which involved reducing mortgage loan standards -- or face backlash from those organizations' private and political associates.
--snip--
For example, if Chase or BOA made 100 mortgages in a poor Chicago district, and Countrywide 150, the government would likely give Chase a lower CRA rating, and community organizers could pressure politicians to make it more difficult for Chase to get licensed to do full ranges of business in new areas of the country. Low CRA ratings could also disadvantage Chase with regard to government lending programs and make it more difficult for Chase to participate in mergers and acquisitions through Fannie Mae, the government controlled banks' mortgage lending activity rates.

Throughout the Congressional debate on GSE regulations in 2003-2005, senior Congressional Democrats repeatedly inferred -- even directly stated on at least one public occasion -- the US federal government would bail Fannie Mae out if required.

--snip-

In written law, the US government only 100% guarantees Ginnie Mae. The other major two GSEs, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, exist in more of a grey area. Nothing explicitly states the federal government is 100% behind them, but it has always been implied. That is why statements of top government officials in the run up to the bubble are so very important, as are actions like the US President personally appointing Fannie's CEO and directors.

From 1993-1999, the Clinton Administration replaced many of Fannie Mae's key executives, including the CEO, the CEO's number two, and nearly half the board of directiors. As a government sponsored enterprise (GSE), the President had the authority to make those appointments. The board, which increasingly consisted of Presidential appointments, incentivize them to reach higher mortgage targets. More specifically, the board promised senior executive millions in bonuses each year as long as Fannie reported certain earnings figures.

Just a quick reminder... Fannie's ability to reach earnings targets is directly related to the number of mortgages it buys, as long as those mortgages do not default or as long as Fannie executives do not recognize negative changes in the payment flow.

In fact, according to the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development, 14.9 percent -- or 2.1 million -- of all mortgages originated in the United States in 1999 went to subprime borrowers. ''Over 90 percent of subprime loans have been made in the last six years,'' Ms. Bayer said, ''and the subprime market has grown roughly 30 percent each year over the previous year during that time.''

=========================



the CRA/ fannie/ freddie/ HUD/ and the FED(interest rates) had a FULL effect on ALL mortgages

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market(subprime).

directly from the new york times in 1999.




all links directly from liberal new York times...all before GS...all before bush, all show the culpability of fannie/Freddie/hud

reality is harsh
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