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The first quoted paragraph is correct. The second quoted paragraph is far from the truth. God is not called the Supreme Architect. The Supreme Architect is a term used in lodges that is to be interpreted by each member to represent the divinity according to his own beliefs. The next paragraph asserts that Masons lead double lives. Pure garbage. Masons can be Christians, Mulsims, Buddhists, Deists or whatever. They do have to assert a belief in a Supreme Being, but the Lodge is NOT a church and religion is NOT practiced there. No matter what links are posted, these are true statements about Freemasons.
I think that some of the founding fathers may have actually been agnostic or atheist, but would never say so in public or in writing. After all, they were politicians. How many current politicians admit to having no religion? Do we have any evidence that the founding fathers under discussion were active church members? Did they attend regularly? Did they teach Sunday School classes?
For those founding fathers who were Masons, admitting to being agnostic or atheistic would have meant they would have to leave the Lodge, something which George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock and Paul Revere would have been unwilling to do. Thomas Jefferson was not a Freemason.
What these men DID agree on was "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... "
The country was clearly established as a secular government. The religious views of the founding fathers do not change that.
Key words: "I think." Of course you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Yes, I misspelled the word Deist which of course completely invalidates my premise.
By the way, enjoy your "freedoms under good."
Part of the reason for the stance I took with my post is the knowledge that many of the founding fathers were also Freemason. The Freemasons are a secret fraternal order that demand of their members that they believe in the idea of a supreme being or God.
In the Freemason weltanshauung God was seen as and called The Supreme Architect of the Universe. It was believed that he set up the natural laws and designed the universe in such a way as to make it self regulating. They did not believe that God interfered with the world nor intervened in the affairs of men. These ideas are so closely aligned with the tenets of Deism that many believe that freemasonry is their source.
Because masons were sworn to secrecy, they led double lives. They may have called themselves Christians and may even have attended church. They may have even openly admired the teachings of Jesus recognizing their utility, but behind the closed doors of "The Lodge" they remained strict Deists worshipping The Great Architect.
The mistake that I made with this thread is in asserting that they were all Deists. Some were not and were not masons, but it's facinating to note just how many were.
George Washington, Ben Franklin, James Madison, John Hancock, Thomas Paine, and Paul Revere were all masons and most likely Deists.
You're not entitled to your own fact either. The facts of history don't support your theory. In their last days they spent them in churces of Christian faith. None looked to Vishnu or Zeus for redemption...
The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws.
Very good, because yes, many of them were practicing different sects of Chirstianity; Catholics to Episcopalians; Methodists to Masons; Presbyterian to Judaism; Quakers to Congregationalist
And many of them didn't even identify with any specific religion (like Ben Franklin, who was ultimately one of the US' first real Scientists)
it's really sad to see how ignorant those who claim that the US was founded on Christian beliefs, didn't know the actual beliefs of the founding fathers; who practiced a range of religious beliefs.
Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war.
[SIZE=-1]Proposed Seal for the United States
On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea (left). Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it (right). Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20. Although not accepted these drafts reveal the religious temper of the Revolutionary period. Franklin and Jefferson were among the most theologically liberal of the Founders, yet they used biblical imagery for this important task.[/SIZE]
In America, the Awakening signaled the advent of an encompassing evangelicalism--the belief that the essence of religious experience was the "new birth," inspired by the preaching of the Word. It invigorated even as it divided churches. The supporters of the Awakening and its evangelical thrust--Presbyterians, Baptists and Methodists--became the largest American Protestant denominations by the first decades of the nineteenth century....
Thomas Jefferson and John Adams are usually considered the leading American deists. There is no doubt that they subscribed to the deist credo that all religious claims were to be subjected to the scrutiny of reason. "Call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion," Jefferson advised. Other founders of the American republic, including George Washington, are frequently identified as deists, although the evidence supporting such judgments is often thin. Deists in the United States never amounted to more than a small percentage of an evangelical population.
Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)
Oh, thus be it ever when free men shall stand,
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Power that has made and preserved us as a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust";
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
The information below has been compiled from contemporary accounts and other sources in the files of the Architect of the Capitol. April 30, 1789 -- George Washington...
Set the precedent of kissing the Bible after the oath.
Quote:
March 4, 1853 -- Franklin Pierce...
Broke precedent by not kissing the Bible, but merely placing his left hand on it.
Isn't the point of this thread that we can't apply currently popular ideas of "religion" to the beliefs of the Founding Fathers? Those who were Deists were nothing like the evangelicals of the 20th century.
Isn't the point of this thread that we can't apply currently popular ideas of "religion" to the beliefs of the Founding Fathers? Those who were Deists were nothing like the evangelicals of the 20th century.
No, it wasn't. The intentions of this thread were far more nefarious than that. A thread started by espousing an opinion of other peoples opinions or in other words hearsay. If they'd were actually interested and had a real point they would have tried using actual writings from those they claimed were Deists. They would have had a hard time actually backing up their claims of all those named if they'd gone that route though.
No, it wasn't. The intentions of this thread were far more nefarious than that. A thread started by espousing an opinion of other peoples opinions or in other words hearsay. If they'd were actually interested and had a real point they would have tried using actual writings from those they claimed were Deists. They would have had a hard time actually backing up their claims of all those named if they'd gone that route though.
Oh, please. The OP put up his opinion. You put up yours. His opinion is just as valid as yours. We know that some of the Founding Fathers were Deists. We also know that some people posting against the idea that some of the Founding Fathers were Deists, don't understand what Deism is. Some people don't even seem to understand what Christianity is.
Oh, please. The OP put up his opinion. You put up yours. His opinion is just as valid as yours. We know that some of the Founding Fathers were Deists. We also know that some people posting against the idea that some of the Founding Fathers were Deists, don't understand what Deism is. Some people don't even seem to understand what Christianity is.
Have you even read this thread? All the quotes I used, the numerous ones, are from the people that are supposedly Deist. Do you understand Deism? The thought that God wound a clock up and set it in motion and there is no changing its course. Does that sound like quantum mechanics to you? Does that sound like the founding forefathers would have needed, at all, to call for action? Why, if they thought God was some sort of deity that hand no role in how events played out would anyone even need to call for action?
Do I need to bring the Magna Carta to William Tyndall just to prove a point -- one which I already have -- that Christianity was the sole religion that influenced that thought process? I'd propose that the burden is on you to prove otherwise. I gave the definition of Deism so the thought that no one understands what it is in your thoughts. Those thoughts aren't founded on any realism.
Those who do not know history are bound to repeat it.
These things aren't my opinion but they are the facts of history. I know it's frustrating to find out everything you've been taught is a farce.
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