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Old 07-13-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,716,055 times
Reputation: 12341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I am certainly a naysayer
I am saying that no skeptical scientist is arguing that climate has not warmed over at least the last 30 years, or even over the last 150 years.

As I remember the debates that raged last winter. AGW faithful were arguing that the snow was in fact proof of climate change.
You're a naysayer? About global warming? Or, just the (debatable) causes that are leading to global warming?

Only a crooked, if not crazy, scientist would argue against general warming of the planet. Causes can stay debatable. But I wasn't speaking of them. I was speaking of this forum, its participants. And here is an example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
What looks ridiculous is the temperature for DJF of 2008 is 26 deg. It doubles the next year and triples the year after that, yet it doesn't seem any warmer.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:17 PM
 
20,393 posts, read 12,289,060 times
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what is DJF?
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:20 PM
 
20,393 posts, read 12,289,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
You're a naysayer? About global warming? Or, just the (debatable) causes that are leading to global warming?

Only a crooked, if not crazy, scientist would argue against general warming of the planet. Causes can stay debatable. But I wasn't speaking of them. I was speaking of this forum, its participants. And here is an example:
there is certainly a difference between real valid debates on the issues. Dog knows I have tried to have discussions about actual science... even going so far as to link actual papers and pose questions.... and the flotsam and jetsam of forum life...

As much as you can provide quotes by skeptics that have no basis in the science, I can provide "its hot and your stupid" posts from the church of AGW...
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,716,055 times
Reputation: 12341
I'm no scientist engaged in studies to speak on anything with authority but to provide links, but as a person with a keen eye for observation and analytical abilities, I find it impossible to deny human influence on global warming. Where I find a disconnect with extremists (one that blames it all on humans, and the other that denies global warming at any cost), is in the extent. At a micro level, when I drove from Irving to Arlington couple of days ago in the evening, through a scenic route (as scenic as it gets here in Dallas area), I noticed a 4 degree variance in temperature, with the coolest temperature showing up along a stretch of hwy-408 (which is where the scenery is). Cities are warmer than their surroundings, aren't they? Deforestation and concrete jungles, and of course pollution are all contributors. Would you say, no?
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,552,077 times
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EG - Good observation of the local variation in temperature. When I travel from the city to my exurban home the temperature actually increases. This is caused by the city being aired by a sea breeze and my home being in the heated air mass from the southwest. These local effects are one of the things that makes climate science so very interesting.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,773,587 times
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NASA has not been here forever....only a few decades vs the earth which has been here 4.5 BILLION years.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,608 posts, read 26,228,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I'm no scientist engaged in studies to speak on anything with authority but to provide links, but as a person with a keen eye for observation and analytical abilities, I find it impossible to deny human influence on global warming. Where I find a disconnect with extremists (one that blames it all on humans, and the other that denies global warming at any cost), is in the extent. At a micro level, when I drove from Irving to Arlington couple of days ago in the evening, through a scenic route (as scenic as it gets here in Dallas area), I noticed a 4 degree variance in temperature, with the coolest temperature showing up along a stretch of hwy-408 (which is where the scenery is). Cities are warmer than their surroundings, aren't they? Deforestation and concrete jungles, and of course pollution are all contributors. Would you say, no?


Good point.

The bottom line is one degree (+1.03 C) over 130 years deserves a huge yawn.

I would be more alarmed if it stayed exactly the same.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:51 PM
 
3,709 posts, read 4,613,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Good point.

The bottom line is one degree (+1.03 C) over 130 years deserves a huge yawn.

I would be more alarmed if it stayed exactly the same.
Yes, whatever happened to natural variation in the minds of the oh-so-astute??

Again, an ignorance of the geologic record.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,716,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Good point.

The bottom line is one degree (+1.03 C) over 130 years deserves a huge yawn.

I would be more alarmed if it stayed exactly the same.
It won't stay the same. But don't take solace in that, yet. One degree may not make seem like a lot, to a person, but in nature it can spell trouble, especially when it can have a cumulative effect.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:08 PM
 
20,393 posts, read 12,289,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
EG - Good observation of the local variation in temperature. When I travel from the city to my exurban home the temperature actually increases. This is caused by the city being aired by a sea breeze and my home being in the heated air mass from the southwest. These local effects are one of the things that makes climate science so very interesting.

conversly, I live in the north part of the metro area here. when I go back to visit my parents, i travel south thru the heart of the metroplex.

the outlying areas a are several degrees cooler, as I approach the center of the city, it is warmer, then it cools as I move to the other end.

heat island effect is easy to see here where there is no ocean breeze
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