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then why dont the new york authorities let that catholic church be put back in place right across from where the world trade center was?
The Greek Orthodox church would like an answer to that as well. A representative from the church said that building at this time is not possible because of other construction going on; however, he said the Port Authority offered them another site and discussions loast year the talks just broke off. He didn't know why. They have been waiting.
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
In any event, if anything ... given the nature of Islam being a governing body and not just a religion, if constitutional law were to be appropriately applied, Islam could and should be classified as an agent of a foreign government, which the federal government could indeed regulate.
That is what should be stressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
Because, while it is not all muslims, it's always a muslim at the center of bombings and wholesale slaughter.
BTW...are we "infidels" going to be welcome at this "cultural center"? or are we too "dirty"?
Why, yes, of course. Imam's wife Daisy says that it will be a center like the "Y". Everyone will be welcome. She didn't say that they will do any recruiting, so it must be true that they won't.
She is continually stressing in all she says about the center and about Islam that it will fit very well with the American system. However, what she said needs to be looked at closely and not taken at face value. It would fit right in with GuyNTexas hypothesis which, I think, is right on.
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Originally Posted by USNRET04
Wasn't the whole object of this thread to disclaim that the building is not a church/mosque but a community center?
Does the first Amendment cover that?
Good point.
Further, the fact that a part of one plane hit the Burlington Coat Factory building is all the more reason that they want this specific location, giving up their property 12 blocks away. It's more symbolism.
Wasn't the whole object of this thread to disclaim that the building is not a church/mosque but a community center?
Does the first Amendment cover that?
Yes, in my opinion, it does. The first Amendment is freedom of religion AND freedom of speech.
If someone wants to build a community center, they have the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. It would (ironically) be un-American to tell them, "No, even though you bought and paid for this land, you don't have the right to build that here."
Further, the fact that a part of one plane hit the Burlington Coat Factory building is all the more reason that they want this specific location, giving up their property 12 blocks away. It's more symbolism.
This was already posted in another thread but it seems to be getting ignored so I think it deserves its own thread, because all this complaining about it is so misguided its not even funny.
The sad thing about the outrage from the Right is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf was brought into his position from President Bush. Do you believe there would have been outrage if Bush was still President?
'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/685071 - broken link)
The Greek Orthodox church would like an answer to that as well. A representative from the church said that building at this time is not possible because of other construction going on; however, he said the Port Authority offered them another site and discussions loast year the talks just broke off. He didn't know why. They have been waiting.
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I guess the representative of the church has been living in another country or he would know why.
The NY Times and commercial RE publications like Crain's have been filled with articles over the past year about the sometimes-nasty arbitration between the Port Authority and Silverstein over who is going to finance what in the east bathtub portion of the site, which Silverstein is supposed to build but hasn't been able to get financial backing for. It's finally getting settled. The church issue is small potatoes next to that and since they can't possibly build for a few years yet, it was easy to set that aside.
But good on St. Nicholas for taking advantage of the focus on the mosque to get the talks going again. They should at least be able to begin making plans for the design and whatever else they can do at this point.
Why, yes, of course. Imam's wife Daisy says that it will be a center like the "Y". Everyone will be welcome. She didn't say that they will do any recruiting, so it must be true that they won't.
She is continually stressing in all she says about the center and about Islam that it will fit very well with the American system. However, what she said needs to be looked at closely and not taken at face value. It would fit right in with GuyNTexas hypothesis which, I think, is right on.
Have you or GuyNTexas ever been to a Jewish Community Center, or JCC? What the MCC is being described as is my EXACT experience with JCCs. JCCs are JUST LIKE A Y, except more Jewish. The vast majority of members are Jewish and the events held there are geared toward Jews, including religious events and parties, religious education, and a Jewish preschool, but there are also pools, gyms, exercise classes, basketball courts, and classes for the general community. While few non-Jews participate, they are welcome and there is generally interfaith workshops and dialogue.
I see no reason why this Muslim community center would not be run the same way. I have been to another like it WEARING MY STAR OF DAVID abroad and never had a problem.
But keep up with your fearmongering. It's much easier than being at peace with those around you.
Have you or GuyNTexas ever been to a Jewish Community Center, or JCC? What the MCC is being described as is my EXACT experience with JCCs. JCCs are JUST LIKE A Y, except more Jewish. The vast majority of members are Jewish and the events held there are geared toward Jews, including religious events and parties, religious education, and a Jewish preschool, but there are also pools, gyms, exercise classes, basketball courts, and classes for the general community. While few non-Jews participate, they are welcome and there is generally interfaith workshops and dialogue.
I see no reason why this Muslim community center would not be run the same way. I have been to another like it WEARING MY STAR OF DAVID abroad and never had a problem.
But keep up with your fearmongering. It's much easier than being at peace with those around you.
The JCC on the East Side is EXACTLY what this idea is modeled on, according to this article. Which I realize won't get read by the people who should read it, but I keep posting anyway.
I appreciate where you are coming from ... but it's not going to work ... at this stage all most 10 years later, people have made their decisions to believe what they believe, and there is no evidence you can present that will affect those beliefs.
Now, I haven't mentioned this previously, because I can gather where most people's understanding is relative to the big picture based on their responses and statements, and when you try to travel outside that framework too far, you are wasting time.
But this one is food for thought for you .... Imam Rauf is a member of the CFR ... he's an insider, and his trip touring the Middle East paid for by the State Department? Really? But nobody seems to take note.
When you take a close look at Imam Rauf, and his American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), what you will find right on it's own website, the funding from the Carnegie Group, three separate Rockefeller groups, among many other "Foundations" providing funding.
So your comments about "it's not all the Muslims" etc., may be true technically, there is a much larger program working behind the scenes ... and much more to this "Community Center" than basketball courts and cultural Arts.
ANYWHERE you find Rockefeller Foundation involvement, you have an anti-American agenda being promoted ... as they are one of the primary financial channels for the anti-American CFR and it's covert activities.
Just about any group that is involved in creating societal strife and tensions get's it's funding from these "foundations" ... groups like La Raza is another prime example.
So this Cordoba project is a CFR creation, with Imam Rauf it's point man, plain and simple. And for anyone remotely familiar with who the real enemies of America are ... the CFR cannot miss the list.
Have you or GuyNTexas ever been to a Jewish Community Center, or JCC? What the MCC is being described as is my EXACT experience with JCCs. JCCs are JUST LIKE A Y, except more Jewish. The vast majority of members are Jewish and the events held there are geared toward Jews, including religious events and parties, religious education, and a Jewish preschool, but there are also pools, gyms, exercise classes, basketball courts, and classes for the general community. While few non-Jews participate, they are welcome and there is generally interfaith workshops and dialogue.
I see no reason why this Muslim community center would not be run the same way. I have been to another like it WEARING MY STAR OF DAVID abroad and never had a problem.
But keep up with your fearmongering. It's much easier than being at peace with those around you.
You say you've been to a "Muslim Community Center" wearing your star of David, abroad. But you don't say where ... abroad is pretty broad, and it is a very pertinent matter. I doubt is was an Islamic Republic you are referring to.
I say this because even Imam Rauf's wife who seems so sincere and so westernized and true blue American couldn't appear in public in an Islamic Republic as she regularly attires herself here. She would be arrested in some places ... fined in some ... beaten in others ... and facing jail time in still others. OK ? Get it? I don't think you do.
This type of "western behavior" of Daisy Khan (an appropriate last name) is only allowable in order to facilitate Muslim expansion in non-Muslim countries where observing Sharia would cause harm to that cause ... it's one of their forms of deception. This is not my opinion, this is fact. The very core of the Islamic faith rests entirely on Sharia .. to them, it is the Law of God and cannot be changed or diluted or compromised. It is as fundamental to their faith as Jesus Christ is to a Christian ... you cannot be a Christian and renounce Jesus ... and you cannot be a Muslim and renounce Sharia Law.
This is where TOTAL IGNORANCE of Islam is demonstrated by the dumbed down and propagandized public, be it Jew, Christian or other.
America has no experience whatsoever with religious tyranny, as there has always been that clear dividing line between our constitutional system of government and justice, with religion playing NO ROLE IN IT. And it has always been unfathomable to an American to have religious tyranny imposed on them ... we have no frame of reference, and all of those religious fanatics in other countries are perceived to be their problem ... and a distortion which could never happen here. Better say you reckon, as NEVER is a very long time.
Islamic rule, based on Sharia law is not the exception .... in countries where Muslims achieve the majority, or at least significant political power to alter the laws .... Islam ALWAYS implements Sharia ... they are compelled to do so ... it's not a choice ... it's not subject to debate .... there is no compromise except in the situations that Islamic leader do not possess the power to implement it. They are nevertheless obligated to pursue that course until they are able to implement it.
Islam is not a religion as westerners view religion because we've been shielded from it ... Islam is a way of life, based on Sharia Law which prescribes the proper behavior of it's followers in almost every aspect of human activity, from attire to personal grooming, to strict codes of conduct which are enforced with varying degrees of voracity, dependent upon political status and power of the hierarchy. Moderation versus fundamentalism is dictated not by the political will of the leadership, but by the political station to which that leadership finds itself within the current power structure of the society they exist.
There is no excuse for such childishness in taking these statements of peace and moderation at face value, when we have such a consistent track record to examine which paints an entirely different picture.
Wake Up. Islam is interested in domination, not freedom of religion, and therefore it is incompatible with western ideals, and particularly so here in the United States.
You need to listen to Islamic leaders around the world who are telling their faithful to watch America ... that Islam will conquer America without bombs or guns, and in 3-4 decades will be an Islamic State.
This is what your ignorance promises to leave your grandchildren and theirs.
Have you or GuyNTexas ever been to a Jewish Community Center, or JCC? What the MCC is being described as is my EXACT experience with JCCs. JCCs are JUST LIKE A Y, except more Jewish. The vast majority of members are Jewish and the events held there are geared toward Jews, including religious events and parties, religious education, and a Jewish preschool, but there are also pools, gyms, exercise classes, basketball courts, and classes for the general community. While few non-Jews participate, they are welcome and there is generally interfaith workshops and dialogue.
I see no reason why this Muslim community center would not be run the same way. I have been to another like it WEARING MY STAR OF DAVID abroad and never had a problem.
But keep up with your fearmongering. It's much easier than being at peace with those around you.
Daisy Khan wanted to fashion this community center after the 92 ST Y that is also a multicultural center and met with the director. She and her husband also met with various clergy in Manhattan before proceeding. They initially attempted to purchase a building on 23rd st in 1999 but the deal feel through because of financing.
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