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Old 07-18-2010, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,827,481 times
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Jesus. Born in the Middle East. Appears on trees. And toast.

Looks like :

or do you think more like:

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Old 07-18-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,238,544 times
Reputation: 6243
Excellent post and article.

It reminds me of the 1956 book "When Prophecy Fails," by Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter, where they study a UFO doomsday cult that fervently believes the world will end on December 20 at midnight. What happens when the time arrives and nothing happens? Do they realize they were wrong and abandon the cult?

Of course not. Consistent with the OP's article, they actually INCREASE their commitment to the cult, decide that God spared the earth from destruction because the group had "spread so much light," and start proselytizing the general public.
Cognitive Dissonance theory
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Old 07-18-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,253,825 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Interesting article, but how to apply it? One man's facts are another's fiction. And legitimate arguments remain over which facts are more important. Consider these pairs of facts.

Fact: global trade makes our country, and the world, wealthier overall. Contrafact: global trade hurts certain industries and people.

Fact: Minimum wage laws, or union contracts that raise wages, result in higher unemployment. Contrafact: workers who keep their jobs benefit from higher incomes mandated by law or union contract.

And we are confronted with many facts, but argue about the conclusions. Some doctors say if your cholesterol is above "X" you should take drugs to reduce it. Drugs have side effects. Argument ensues.

And some things are presented as facts, but are not. "If you like your health plan, you can keep it." "The Clean Air Act will bankrupt American industry."

And other facts will never be accepted as facts. (Example: this post will be answered by denials of the facts stated about global trade and unemployment.)
Great post but I will certainly argue with you about one assertion by you. I have been on statins for years without any side effects but much lower cholesterol, of both kinds. Now I have read up on that one very often because the American Heart Association has said we must keep that nasty cholesterol at 100 or lower. I finally found a statin that would lower my triglycerides to about that point and since "Dr" Buddy Hackett always argued about them being worse than cholesterol I took his word for it. He was a very funny comedian so he must have known about things like that.

Not long ago a heart specialist told me to get off my drug as he and his hospital owner just couldn't take statins with suffering from side effects. Arthritis isn't one of the listed side effects but he took it for granted that a man who has taken those things for 15 years might be suffering from side effects. I think I am about to go back since those detractors aren't telling about me. I never have had any of the side effects of any statins and I do think that taking them has helped me stay alive.

Now, as to the rest of your post, I think it was great and will rep you for it.
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Old 07-18-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,745,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTraveler View Post
It’s one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one. “Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government,” Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789.

If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight.

In the end, truth will out. Won’t it?

This is a great article and should certainly be read, objectively if possible, by everyone on this board.

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
We saw a great example of this, this morning. It even happens at the highest levels of our government.

Stimulus 'Would Have Been Bigger' but for GOP - Political Punch

"Was the $862 billion stimulus too small? It probably would have been bigger, Vice President Joe Biden said, if it weren’t for Republican opposition in early 2009."

Obama Rallies Democrats on Stimulus Package - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

"Asked if the figure shoud be $800 billion and not more, Mr. Obama said: “Well, I gave you a range. I think we’re in range.”"
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,253,825 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTraveler View Post
It’s one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one. “Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government,” Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789.

If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight.

In the end, truth will out. Won’t it?

This is a great article and should certainly be read, objectively if possible, by everyone on this board.

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
Good post. Now do I have to change back to a liberal since most of what I thought I knew came from conservatives? I think I will remain because the reason I changed was that I promised myself I would change if the Democrats nominated George McGovern for President I would switch parties. They did and so did I. He was an avowed and admitted socialist just as our present President seems to be to me. Go ahead and tell me I am wrong about that since I don't think you can make me believe it any more than I do.

Darned good article. Now when will some of those people get together and make it into a body of learning for all to study?

I was wondering about when Cass Sunstein read the article till I looked and found that he was in charge of misinformation from the White House long before the publishing of the article.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: nj
1,062 posts, read 1,127,403 times
Reputation: 349
This has upset me for some time , many people do toss away the facts . They don't ask questions , answers are problems.
I will only hear facts and judge on past performance not promises . I find I like people less every day .
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