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Old 07-19-2010, 08:21 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,004,382 times
Reputation: 1263

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“A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly happen”
-James Madison

“Keep within the requisite limits a standing military force, always remembering that an armed and trained militia is the firmest bulwark of republics - that without standing armies their liberty can never be in danger, nor with large ones safe”
-James Madison

“None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army”
- Thomas Jefferson

“Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. The objections which have been brought against a standing army, and they are many and weighty, and deserve to prevail, may also at last be brought against a standing government.”
- Henry David Thoreau (not a founding father but a very influential American)

And straight from the greatest document ever written..Article One Section 8 of the US Constitution

"To raise and support armies, but no approriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years."

The founding fathers never wanted the nation to have a standing army for more than two years.

Is it time to return to a Constitutional government and end the Department of Defense?
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
9,994 posts, read 7,139,682 times
Reputation: 3775
The Army was disbanded after the Revolutionary War.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:31 PM
 
180 posts, read 142,010 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
Is it time to return to a Constitutional government and end the Department of Defense?
No, the Founding Fathers' opinions only matter when they are in opposition to liberalism.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,111 posts, read 4,220,654 times
Reputation: 2403
Thisis an interesting point and can be traced to our British ancestors who grew to view large professional standing armies a a threat to civil liberties especially if the army owed its allegiance to the monarchy. Geography also played a role since once Britain became a great power. Britain being an island nation that you couldn't ride or walk into viewed the Royal Navy as the shield that kept Britain free from continental powers and ensured its interests through out the world. This weakness in British land based arms played a role in Britain losing the American Revolutionary war. It might have been different if Britain had been more like Prussia.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:43 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 11,258,430 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
The Army was disbanded after the Revolutionary War.
The context of their statements, you can substitute military/ militia for 'army'. There weren't divisions of mission the way we've sorted out over the years, and to deny their limited concepts at the time would be the grounds to disband the airforce based on the fact that planes didn't exist yet. We've got to keep the times in mind for translation.

OP The constitution also states the caveat a 'well regulated' militia, but too many hiding behind constitutional arguments are insisting they're entitled to unfettered autonomy. To them I say- I don't think so, pal. I firmly support 2nd amendment, but not when terrorists and anarchists want to use it to justify crime against Americans (McVie) or circumvent justice/legislative process. I'm born & raised christian, but that doesn't mean I'll support bogus christians on a crusade, either. If I go to a peace march and the organizer suggests a violent act to prove a point, sorry, I gotta go. I get the sinking feeling false representation, persistent, pernicious, is going to be the death of us as a nation.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
9,994 posts, read 7,139,682 times
Reputation: 3775
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
The context of their statements, you can substitute military/ militia for 'army'. There weren't divisions of mission the way we've sorted out over the years, and to deny their limited concepts at the time would be the grounds to disband the airforce based on the fact that planes didn't exist yet. We've got to keep the times in mind for translation.

OP The constitution also states the caveat a 'well regulated' militia, but too many hiding behind constitutional arguments are insisting they're entitled to unfettered autonomy. To them I say- I don't think so, pal. I firmly support 2nd amendment, but not when terrorists and anarchists want to use it to justify crime against Americans (McVie) or circumvent justice/legislative process. I'm born & raised christian, but that doesn't mean I'll support bogus christians on a crusade, either. If I go to a peace march and the organizer suggests a violent act to prove a point, sorry, I gotta go. I get the sinking feeling false representation, persistent, pernicious, is going to be the death of us as a nation.
The army was disbanded because there was no provision in the Constitution to levy funds to maintain it except in time of war, and the war was over.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Northeast Ohio
571 posts, read 748,647 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
“A standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly happen”
-James Madison

“Keep within the requisite limits a standing military force, always remembering that an armed and trained militia is the firmest bulwark of republics - that without standing armies their liberty can never be in danger, nor with large ones safe”
-James Madison

“None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army”
- Thomas Jefferson

“Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. The objections which have been brought against a standing army, and they are many and weighty, and deserve to prevail, may also at last be brought against a standing government.”
- Henry David Thoreau (not a founding father but a very influential American)

And straight from the greatest document ever written..Article One Section 8 of the US Constitution

"To raise and support armies, but no approriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years."

The founding fathers never wanted the nation to have a standing army for more than two years.

Is it time to return to a Constitutional government and end the Department of Defense?
I wouldn't "end" the Department of Defense, but we should take 90% of our troops that are stationed oversees and return them home. We could also spend less on the military and more on other things that would actually improve our country domestically.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,528 posts, read 2,606,397 times
Reputation: 1476
Do the advantages of being a superpower outweigh the price of maintaining a standing army in perpetuity? It was awfully good for us during the 20th century.
One could also argue that we don't have a military so much as we have both a foreign and domestic jobs and community development program. Reduce significantly the military and a lot of communities will be hurt.
I fully support a reduction in the military, but don't do it without considering ALL of the ramifications?
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:53 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 11,258,430 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Thisis an interesting point and can be traced to our British ancestors who grew to view large professional standing armies a a threat to civil liberties especially if the army owed its allegiance to the monarchy. Geography also played a role since once Britain became a great power. Britain being an island nation that you couldn't ride or walk into viewed the Royal Navy as the shield that kept Britain free from continental powers and ensured its interests through out the world. This weakness in British land based arms played a role in Britain losing the American Revolutionary war. It might have been different if Britain had been more like Prussia.
I think the difference between us and them, or even similar situations occurring in south america with military loyal to a pet dictator, is the oath our military takes.

Any vet can tell you they're fighting to preserve & defend the constitution, not loyal to a political party. Even the loyalty bestowed the commander in chief is limited to his loyalty to uphold the constitution. This would be why R's have grasped at straws to call into question Obama's citizenship and loyalty. They're attempting to incite mutiny among the troops through propaganda. The same people who wish America to fail. RW extremists are a rebranded hanoi jane.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:57 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 11,258,430 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by UntamedOhioan View Post
I wouldn't "end" the Department of Defense, but we should take 90% of our troops that are stationed oversees and return them home. We could also spend less on the military and more on other things that would actually improve our country domestically.
That path requires America listen to libertarians trying to put forth a better foriegn policy. We need to spell out better, before the next Rwanda or Serbia or Hitler Germany what is a justifiable reason to have a war or intervene.

Personally I agree that troops covering the globe, maintaining 'strategic points'-- lets hear the reasons why anyone felt it necessary, then decide what's appropriate for this century and not last century.
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