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Seriously? Simply working towards Christian Dominionism is illegal in your mind? Props for staying with your principles, but you are aware that no Christian Dominionist churches are freely practicing, right?
That's pretty questionable, but let's not go there.
If that is questionable to you, then we have come to a impasse. Thank you for your time.
It is not my request to see the funding. However the request has been made. Mayor Bloomberg refuses to follow through. It is not an entire religion that is being requested to show funding. It is those developing this Mosque, this building.
Thank you for admitting that the Muslims did build a Mosque on the site they conquered in Cordoba. That was the point I was making. This Ground Zero Mosque is similarly symbolic.
I don't see how. No one conquered anything on 9/11, for starters, and further, this little building is dwarfed by what is actually being built on the actual WTC site.
It would be completely incorrect to argue that this is a first Amendment issue as it is not. There are hundreds of Mosques in NYC already. It is the location that is of debate and the insensitivity of this Imam of questionalble connections in pushing forward with a project that is dividing the community and undisclosed funding for the building that is of question.
It isn't dividing the community in which it is located. It is dividing mostly people who haven't ever even been to lower Manhattan.
And the "undisclosed funding" story is getting tiresome. They don't know where they are getting the money and are planning to fundraise. "They don't know yet" does not equal "undisclosed".
For those who support allowing this building to move forward would you have any opposition to Hormel opening a pork packing plant adjacent to this prayer center (mosque)? If so why?
Because downtown New York is a bad spot for a meat packing plant.
IIRC, people have already argued for a Hooters, a "bacon store", somebody wanted a burger joint because he thought beef was offensive to Muslims (too dumb to be a bigot, pretty sad), a Victoria's Secret and I think a Chippendale's was mentioned as well.
Not sure in the long haul that is true. If a foothold is gained the the financial sector......
I was reading, just yesterday, a friend that works with missions in Kenya, who said that the Muslim churches are growing and that they are swearing they will build a mosque every 8 kilometers whether there are muslims living in the area or not. She also said they were doing prayer walks at 3 a.m. to convert the neighborhoods.
I think the financial sector is probably the LAST place any religion will ever take a foothold. It's a cult unto itself. If they were after that, though, maybe they should build their mosque closer to Wall Street!
If people want to convert to Islam, that's their choice. Not my cup of tea, but New York City is full of religious choices. Muslims have been proseletyzing in public since I started working there 30 years ago. So have the Jews for Jesus and assorted other Christian groups, but come to think of it, it's been a number of years since I've seen any Hare Krishnas.
I can prove that Thomas Moore Law Center is trying to undermine the constitution. Would that you make speak against it?
Yes.
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The real question here is... do you understand the constitution? And do you pledge to protect it? Could you provide information from the constitution relevant to the issue?
Yes. Yes.
All legislative Powers shall be vested in the Congress and not responsible to Allah.
This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made under it shall be the supreme law of the land, and judges in every state shall be bound by them.Senators and Representatives, legislative officers, all executive and judicial officers both of the United States and the several states shall be bound by a Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution and not to Allah.
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Also, could you explain to me what is Sharia Law? Is it something along the lines of a belief system that US constitution is based off Christian laws? Citing the actual document to bolster your argument will go a long way.
It is a legal system/framework based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence that govern private and public aspects of life. It is also a system of devising laws which are based on the Koran, the hadith, centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.
While some of the Koran is based on Judeo/Christian principles, as Mohammed was influenced by these things until he gained a larger following, not all of it is.
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You've taken your argument from an emotions driven response on 9/11 and community center/mosque near ground zero to pushing your agenda against Muslims (and Sharia law is just a catchy phrase for that means).
Not emotionally driven as I see that this issue of 1st Amendment rights is being used as a distraction from the basic facts of the background of those involved.
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BTW, did you know there is no standard definition of Sharia Law, not even like the Ten Commandments (many of which are a part of Sharia).
Islamic Sharia has some tenets that are the same and as I said, Mohammed was influenced by these tenets, implementing them until he garnered a larger following. That is part of history.
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So, the first amendment doesn't apply?
As long as the person or group does not have nefarious associations to undermine our country. That goes for illegals, prison inmates, terrorists, etc. They have no rights under the Constitution at that point. Any person involved in treason should not be allowed Miranda rights.
Yes. Yes.
All legislative Powers shall be vested in the Congress and not responsible to Allah.
This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made under it shall be the supreme law of the land, and judges in every state shall be bound by them.Senators and Representatives, legislative officers, all executive and judicial officers both of the United States and the several states shall be bound by a Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution and not to Allah.
It is a legal system/framework based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence that govern private and public aspects of life. It is also a system of devising laws which are based on the Koran, the hadith, centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.
While some of the Koran is based on Judeo/Christian principles, as Mohammed was influenced by these things until he gained a larger following, not all of it is.
There is no reference to Congress in Judeo-Christian principles which you believe to be the foundation of US constitution either... it is all about God (Allah, in Arabic). Oh, and pretty much everything you call Judeo-Christian is Islamic as well. Technically, it should be Judeo-Christian-Islamic principles.
What exactly is Judeo-Christianity principles that you suggest Quran has only part of it in common? There is nothing about Christianity that is common with Judeo principles either. What is Jesus (you know, the reason for Christianity to exist in the first place) in Judaism, that somehow this reference "Judeo-Christian" has been made sound so magical?
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Not emotionally driven as I see that this issue of 1st Amendment rights is being used as a distraction from the basic facts of the background of those involved.
So now bill of rights can be used as a distraction. From what, if I may ask...
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As long as the person or group does not have nefarious associations to undermine our country. That goes for illegals, prison inmates, terrorists, etc. They have no rights under the Constitution at that point. Any person involved in treason should not be allowed Miranda rights.
Being a Muslim is that disqualification? Wait... you said something about using first amendment for distraction... is this it?
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 08-10-2010 at 03:08 AM..
Reason: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
"Islamic extremists in Germany have lost an important meeting place following Monday's move by Hamburg authorities to close the Taiba mosque and the society attached to it."
It would be completely incorrect to argue that this is a first Amendment issue as it is not. There are hundreds of Mosques in NYC already. It is the location that is of debate and the insensitivity of this Imam of questionalble connections in pushing forward with a project that is dividing the community and undisclosed funding for the building that is of question.
That is the ADL position as well. For the sake of community relations, which the Imam says he wants to foster, they would be better off to move the location of the mosque, and garner a great deal of good will in the community, according to the ADL. Rauf reportedly is now returning an award he received from the ADL 5 years ago, he's that upset with the ADL. Good community relations move? Not good for the image at all.
"Islamic extremists in Germany have lost an important meeting place following Monday's move by Hamburg authorities to close the Taiba mosque and the society attached to it."
I heard that this morning. Europe has had more experience with mosques than we have. Maybe we should take a closer look to see what we can learn from them.
Zionists are Muslims' best friends. Aren't they? Why am I not surprised? And while the anti-Islam movement may be using and abusing emotions around 9/11 (AND completely ignoring the fact that Muslims died as well), the opposition is what it is... anti-Islam, and against mosques everywhere.
For that alone, I want the community center/mosque to be built at the Old Cardoba House site. Nothing would speak tolerance and respect, and freedom better than that.
Otherwise we might as well ask for a constitutional amendment that makes these freedoms conditional.
At least that will be more honest.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 08-09-2010 at 04:24 PM..
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