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Old 07-23-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: OUTTA SIGHT!
3,018 posts, read 3,556,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker View Post
High IQ's, abilities in math and science don't give birth, keep families together, nurture anything other than their own ego, and don't necessarily make a lot of money - a lot tend to hide out in academia forever where they are comfortable because their social skills aren't so great.
Or online.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: OUTTA SIGHT!
3,018 posts, read 3,556,181 times
Reputation: 1899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post


Does believing that men are better at geometry make you a sexist? Does believing that asians tend to be better at geometry than africans make you a racist?

When did stating scientific facts become an act of evil? Should I feel guilty because I am a man? Should I feel guilty for anything at all?
Good questions.
I think we can all jump to conclusions sometimes about where the poster of such facts is going with stating the stats. Like "because women are not as good at math then...."

Also, the samples mostly cover each other.
In other words most men and women in any sample statistically rank the same
...it's only the extremes that are different. or so I've been told.

By the way:
If men are so good at math why are they failing in college?

Quote:
Earlier this year, women became the majority of the workforce for the first time in U.S. history. Most managers are now women too. And for every two men who get a college degree this year, three women will do the same.

For years, women’s progress has been cast as a struggle for equality. But what if equality isn’t the end point? What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? A report on the unprecedented role reversal now under way— and its vast cultural consequences.

The End of Men - Magazine - The Atlantic
BOO YA!!!! EAT IT PIG!!!! HAHAHAH* Oh wait, I'm a man, too. Damn.
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:52 AM
 
Location: California
37,091 posts, read 42,078,286 times
Reputation: 34940
I'm lousy with math. But apparently I have an aptitude, at least according to the testing I've taken that led me to become a computer programmer 30 years ago. I can't figure out how it all works but it's not just a simple matter of "being good at math". There is more to it than that. So even though I failed college algebra 3 times I KNOW I'm considered more intelligent than many people who got an A! LOL.
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,622 posts, read 26,292,175 times
Reputation: 12634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I realize that women tend to be better with language. My point is that the skills men possess(and women generally do not) are of more monetary value. So men should always be financially superior to women, forever. And if the goal for women is to have financial independence or equality with men. Then this could only exist by having unfair hiring/advancement policies.

Without a democratic system where women are given an equal vote in the policies of businesses or in society(government). Then women should always be in a position of almost an oppressed minority. With no way to rectify the situation, because their skills will never have equal value to a man's.

If women receive most of their power from equal representation under a democratic system, but tend to have a lesser value allocated to them by society(usually through compensatory wages). Then in the absence of this democratic system(government), then women would inescapably fall back into their sub-male roles.


If that was the case, then would people be running around talking about how to cure female underachievement?




I'm with you to a degree. Males have abilities that should be compensated by the unaltered market forces, but everyone is different and females also have abilities that should be compensated in like fashion.

When I was younger, I waited tables. At one restaurant they did a spectacular lunch business, so much so that it was hard for any wait person to keep up. I teamed up with a waitress in such a way that we each benefited from the other's advantages. She was faster on her feet that I was, so she was in charge of greeting our tables and taking orders. I could lift heavy trays, so I was in charge of hauling things in and out of the dining room. We both had the ability to play on a team and, as we worked together over time, we even developed the ability to communicate with each other across the dining room with just a glance. Together we both made more money than we would have working individually since our table turn was shorter than it otherwise would have been. Generally, things went a lot smoother and our guests were better served.

As for your plan to restart the war of the sexes, females are 53% of the voters and decide every election. As long as we give each citizen one vote, women will make the decisions. This includes how individuals are compensated for their abilities. My advice is relax and try to enjoy the ride because we will never be in the driver's seat.
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Old 07-24-2010, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,334,283 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Nice little exerpt from some study that still insists women do poorly on tests.

Women and Math, the Gender Gap Bridged - Social equality frees women to match men

This is the most thorough and seemingly unbiased study I have found on the subject. It is a rather long article on the subject though.

With the most relevant part of my argument being the section titled "Social Equality, or Just Biology at Work?"


And my point is merely that, men are different than women. All the cheerleading in the world doesn't fix biological differences. And I don't understand how anyone who has at least two braincells to rub together could possibly fall into the trap of believing that we are all the same. And that egalitarian mindset is extremely dangerous in my opinion. Because it creates unfairness, irresponsibility, anger, and resentment.


Does believing that men are better at geometry make you a sexist? Does believing that asians tend to be better at geometry than africans make you a racist?

When did stating scientific facts become an act of evil? Should I feel guilty because I am a man? Should I feel guilty for anything at all?


In countries where women occupy an equal position to men in society, such as Sweden, there was virtually no gender gap in maths ability. However, in countries with lower levels of gender equality, such as Turkey, the boys performed better in maths tests than the girls.

"The gender gap in mathematics doesn't seem to be a feature of every society," says Sapienza.

What's more, the girls produced better reading scores than the boys in all the countries looked at, but did even better in countries with higher levels of gender equality.

The research could help explain the disappearing gender gap in maths ability reported in the US. Sapienza says the next step will be to try to uncover the mechanisms by which this gender gap is closing.

"So far we have only established a correlation and there is no way of claiming any causality," she says.

Exploding the myth that boys are better at maths - life - 30 May 2008 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14026-exploding-the-myth-that-boys-are-better-at-maths.html - broken link)

Its a myth. Its a problem with will power. If you tell someone that they are going to fail, all the time, guess what, they are going to fail.

In countries where the gender gap is closed, women perform just as well as men at math, and better at reading.

We are not that different as sexes. Yes, physically we are, but women can do most of the same physical things that we men can. However, most of them settle for the role that mother nature intended. Is that a gap, or a choice? I see it as a choice, you see it as a gap.
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Old 07-24-2010, 08:32 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 7,998,541 times
Reputation: 2521
Analysis of data from 15-year-old students participating in the 2003 Program for International Student Assessment likewise indicated that as many, if not MORE GIRLS than boys scored above the 99th percentile in Iceland, Thailand, and the United Kingdom in MATH.

"Why is there a gender gap in the United States? It just might have something to do with the discouraging message that a person in possession of breasts is biologically incapable of doing that ever-so-manly math" - Mertz and Hyde

We just pretend we don't get math - got to let men think there is something they can do better than we can
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Old 07-24-2010, 08:34 AM
 
817 posts, read 851,608 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
It is a well-known fact that men(as a group) are innately better at math than women, because of genetic differences between men and women.

Are Men Better at Math? - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

And this gap is not cultural, so it cannot be erased through any program or policy devised by society. And if most IQ tests seem to focus mostly on visuo-spatial ability, such as this IQ test(and most others).

http://iqtest.dk/main.swf

And if the highest performers on IQ tests are even more disproportionately male than would be indicated by the overall male/female IQ divide. And if having a high IQ, and possessing abilities in math and sciences have the highest value in our society, and should correlate with higher wages and success. Then, if all things are equal, shouldn't women basically be almost second-class human beings in our social structure?

So if it could be said that any equality between men and women can only exist through artificial means. Because men and women are inherently unequal. Then all talk of equality between men and women should be scoffed at as the ridiculous non-sense it is. And completely ignored as pure fantasy.

How does this make women feel?
Let us put men and women together
See which one is smarter
Some say men, but I say no
Women run the men like a puppet show
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Old 07-24-2010, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,744,559 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I realize that women tend to be better with language. My point is that the skills men possess(and women generally do not) are of more monetary value. So men should always be financially superior to women, forever. And if the goal for women is to have financial independence or equality with men. Then this could only exist by having unfair hiring/advancement policies.

Without a democratic system where women are given an equal vote in the policies of businesses or in society(government). Then women should always be in a position of almost an oppressed minority. With no way to rectify the situation, because their skills will never have equal value to a man's.

If women receive most of their power from equal representation under a democratic system, but tend to have a lesser value allocated to them by society(usually through compensatory wages). Then in the absence of this democratic system(government), then women would inescapably fall back into their sub-male roles.


If that was the case, then would people be running around talking about how to cure female underachievement?
The whole thing is ridiculous and the 'studies' look to me to have been designed by men wanting to 'prove' women are 'inherently' "less" than men. I may not be a genius when it comes to many math subjects, but guess who my late husband depended on to keep our finances straight?
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Old 07-24-2010, 08:55 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 7,998,541 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post


We are not that different as sexes. Yes, physically we are, but women can do most of the same physical things that we men can. However, most of them settle for the role that mother nature intended. Is that a gap, or a choice? I see it as a choice, you see it as a gap.
I am unsettled, by your choice of the word "settle for"

Women are very different from men. We multi task, while most men pretend to

I think men have superior skills for things in life, like:
killing insects and snakes
putting bait on a fish hook and hunting
mowing the lawn
going to the convenience store late at night

*Of course, these are things we can do too - we just don't want to
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:04 AM
 
4,127 posts, read 5,057,722 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Women are very different from men. We multi task, while most men pretend to
So true. For me, multi-tasking is simply a faster way to screw up everything at once!
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