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Old 07-27-2010, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,594,003 times
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Excellent post. I was raised in a household dominated by a drunken egotist because my mother was convinced I needed a "father". She was the perfect co-dependent product of her time.

I like women that can say: I am me. I am mine. I am not a slave. I am who I am and if you don’t like it leave me alone! I am fortunate to know several women that believe all these things.
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:54 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,741,119 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
OH YES! And ALL men dress in baggy pants hanging down to their knees with their underwear showing, dirty t-shirts, caps on backwards...ALL men dress like that and it's a sign of society's degeneration brought on by women wearing short skirts and having a job like any RESPONSIBLE ADULT.......it's all women's FAULT...because OBVIOUSLY, men can't be personally responsible for their own actions and have to have someone to blame to make their tiny selves feel better.
Appears you've heard this story of Adam and Ev(e)il before.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:11 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 7,990,714 times
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Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Sex and the City or Pretty Woman?

Both basically saying you can be a prostitute and yet Prince Charming will sweep you off your feet, creating very unrealistic expectations in those who believe in that stuff, given I see women much more likely to emulate what they see in the media.
Men are just as likely to emulate what they see in the media.
To your basic question: What caused more harm to women, and thus society: Religion created by men
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:22 PM
 
36,054 posts, read 30,560,927 times
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I dont know beta

What caused more harm to women, and thus society

"Mary Tylor Moore" or "Laverne and Shirly"
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Outside always.
1,517 posts, read 2,313,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
I dont know beta

What caused more harm to women, and thus society

"Mary Tylor Moore" or "Laverne and Shirly"

I believe it is a little of both. I personally can't go to Minneapolis/St. Paul without spinning around in the center of town and throwing my hat into the air...and I have these huge L's embroidered on all of my tops. I wish I had never watched these old shows on cable.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:53 AM
 
36,054 posts, read 30,560,927 times
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Originally Posted by smel View Post
I believe it is a little of both. I personally can't go to Minneapolis/St. Paul without spinning around in the center of town and throwing my hat into the air...and I have these huge L's embroidered on all of my tops. I wish I had never watched these old shows on cable.
Yeah, they had such a hugh impact on my life as a young woman (you know being how women are so impressionable and emulate what they see on TV). Darn those women with their embroidered clothes (must be why I own an embroidery machine) and drinking beer and dating bad boys. It is shameful they created such unrealistic expectations like working, having your own apartment and being independent!
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:27 AM
 
29,972 posts, read 18,533,328 times
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Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
more harm than sex in the city or pretty woman is the condescending judgmental attitudes of people who have values from victorian times.
????????

The media, in both television, movies, and magazines, have presented a very strange, destructive image of "womanhood" to our daughters which should revile any parent.

The message sent to our daughters is that thier net worth in society is based primarily on their breast size, waistline, and how high thier cheek bones are. This is very destructive and depersonalizes women.

My daughter is a very attractive young lady. However, we have conditioned her to understand that he net worth is more about her academic accomplishments, work ethic, and how she treats others, rather than her appearance. It takes alot of work to reverse the sentiments presented by the media to young women, but is quite necessary in todays society to make it quite clear that young women are more than a pair of breasts.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,610 posts, read 26,256,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
more harm than sex in the city or pretty woman is the condescending judgmental attitudes of people who have values from victorian times.




Canned answers are even worse.

Victorian times?




The question is a good one.

Which modern fable, given the two choices, helps to produce the greatest number of reflexive, irresponsible, self-loathing, bitter and man-hating unwed/divorced mothers and abortion clinic clients convinced they are simply meeting all the wrong men?


Of course, Julia Roberts being involved with any film immediately rockets it to contender status for greatest anti-social influence generally, but Pretty Woman is ancient history. I'll go with Sex and the City just because it is presently very popular among the semi-conscious/drooling while staring at bright lights set.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:42 AM
 
36,054 posts, read 30,560,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post

The media, in both television, movies, and magazines, have presented a very strange, destructive image of "womanhood" to our daughters which should revile any parent.

The message sent to our daughters is that their net worth in society is based primarily on their breast size, waistline, and how high their cheek bones are. This is very destructive and depersonalizes women.

My daughter is a very attractive young lady. However, we have conditioned her to understand that he net worth is more about her academic accomplishments, work ethic, and how she treats others, rather than her appearance. It takes alot of work to reverse the sentiments presented by the media to young women, but is quite necessary in todays society to make it quite clear that young women are more than a pair of breasts.
I agree that much of the media sends a bad message to young women, but hasnt it always? Hasnt the message to women always been to be beautiful, enhance your looks so you can attract men, get married and be a good wife? Older shows depicted women in the subservient roles of housewife, “Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, Ozzie and Harriet, I love Lucy, Bewitched, Donna Reed and All in the family. Then came shows depicting liberated and independent women, “That Girl, The Partridge Family, Alice, Mary Tyler Moore, Rhoda, and Laverne and Shirley. The Bionic woman” Only recently have tv and movies stressed a woman’s academic achievements, careers and character, “The Closer, Crossing Jordan, Judging Amy, Ugly Betty, Hawthorne, Saving Grace, In Plain Sight”. So does life imitate art or does art imitate life?

It is a parents job to instill values and confidence in their children so they can filter out the garbage spewed by the media and advertisers as well as to control their tv viewing. Shows like SATC are not meant as role models for impressionable young teens any more than other tv shows like jackass, hangover, (as someone mentioned) the man show, etc. etc. Reasonable adults recognize entertainment for entertainment.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:51 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,741,119 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
I agree that much of the media sends a bad message to young women, but hasnt it always? Hasnt the message to women always been to be beautiful, enhance your looks so you can attract men, get married and be a good wife? Older shows depicted women in the subservient roles of housewife, “Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, Ozzie and Harriet, I love Lucy, Bewitched, Donna Reed and All in the family. Then came shows depicting liberated and independent women, “That Girl, The Partridge Family, Alice, Mary Tyler Moore, Rhoda, and Laverne and Shirley. The Bionic woman” Only recently have tv and movies stressed a woman’s academic achievements, careers and character, “The Closer, Crossing Jordan, Judging Amy, Ugly Betty, Hawthorne, Saving Grace, In Plain Sight”. So does life imitate art or does art imitate life?

It is a parents job to instill values and confidence in their children so they can filter out the garbage spewed by the media and advertisers as well as to control their tv viewing. Shows like SATC are not meant as role models for impressionable young teens any more than other tv shows like jackass, hangover, (as someone mentioned) the man show, etc. etc. Reasonable adults recognize entertainment for entertainment.
Media can only speak to people in terms of what they know or can relate to experientially. Evidenced in archives of yellow journalism (any nation) is emotional manipulation predicated upon stereotypes/ values of a given culture. Prior to media existence there was rule of law and recorded history painting stories in the framework of their value set.

Far beyond the stupidity of cosmo or whatever trend uniforms women have been forced into throughout the ages (a burqua or a barbie doll) you can see through the eyes of women 2,000 years ago through justice stories. An adulterer that is female is different than an adulterer that's male. Right up to present day prejudices, what about our culture has evolved? Do I agree & want adultery promoted? No. Equal consequences in our culture make for a healthy culture. As we speak there remain social sanctions (unofficial legislation) that reward bad behavior, and punish good behavior in females. The only way I dodged that bullet (led around by populist sentiment) is parenting that focused my attention on being completely self aware. Knowing myself completely (warts and all) and owning my life as comprehensively as possible.

Our culture rewards prostitution handsomely. What has changed? Some of us still stick to our guns and refuse to participate. Some of us refuse to marry a drunk, a tyrant, a bully, a pedophile... I think gregw as a male could come up with a long list of people he never aspired to be. I think it's important for men to be self aware if they mean to have healthy relationships with women. As far as pappy&me- if she's lived her life claiming herself to be a slave of her husband, her children voted in their own lives. If she's truly happy, they had an example set before them to know what a garden of eden can be. Happy well adjusted children growing to be mature responsible adults able to get along in the world is the proof in the pudding. Some conservatives got it wrong, and some liberals got it wrong. Somehow others succeeded.

What social ills remain in a patriarchal society point squarely at men refusing to accept responsibility for themselves. That is until the day we as a nation declare ourselves not patriarchal, not matriarchal, but equally based. We share the rewards and bear the consequences equally. Rush Limbaugh is a grown man begging for a breast on public airwaves and our patriarchal society doesn't classify that as lewd & lascivious behavior. Any of you ladies care to indulge him? Unwritten rules of our culture- would you be a lady if you did? He doesn't want a wife, he doesn't want a mommy, he wants a prostitute.

My definition of lady seems a very different definition than what lingers in the minds of men, and various assortments of women believing the tale of Adam and Ev(e)il. In the limitations of our language, do words evolve as broader meaning, or do they lose their value because people refuse to value them, or do they die off by natural selection, replaced by better words? I think that's a question for philosophy/ great debate forum.
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