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Old 08-01-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,264,378 times
Reputation: 2011

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
The main defenders of Islam hail from the left, not the right.
Sure, but there is a huge leap between that and this.
Quote:
Sure, there are exceptions and you may be one of them, but as a general rule the liberals will back Islam
I don't know a single liberal who "backs" Islam.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:56 AM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,264,378 times
Reputation: 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
why do some liberals on CD generalize about republicans/conservatives?

Isn't the DNC the party of tolerance?

I better stop now, any shots at the left wing would surely mean I'm a racist.
I know the different groups within the right-wing. Conservatives, Paleconservatives, Neocons, etc. The list goes on and on.

Same applies to the left-wing. "Liberals" are not the entire left-wing.

And I do believe I mentioned in my very first post that I am not a liberal.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,526 posts, read 7,215,932 times
Reputation: 2845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
Sure, but there is a huge leap between that and this.

I don't know a single liberal who "backs" Islam.
Backs/defends, whatever. It's all about perception and it's the perception that it is the LEFT who are the cheerleaders of Islam, not the right.

Glad to hear you aren't one of them though and you see Islam for what it truly is, a disgusting intolerant """religion""".
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:00 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,632,029 times
Reputation: 12537
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
why do some liberals on CD generalize about republicans/conservatives?
The same reason some conservatives generalize about liberals. There are always people out there to make sweeping statements and judgments on entire groups instead of listening to individuals. It's a personality trait that transcends political affiliation and religious belief.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Don't be a cry baby!
1,310 posts, read 1,185,145 times
Reputation: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
I hear this all the time and I don't get the reasoning behind it. First of all, being nonreligious does not equate to being a left-winger and vice versa.

I'm am an atheist and a leftie (although not a liberal) and I am completely opposed to Islam (and religion in general really). Islam is a religion of hate. Sure, not every Muslim is a psychotic terrorist. It doesn't matter. Those who cling to the "moderate Muslim" title are considered infidels by their own religion. This is also true with fundamentalist Christianity, but in their defense (if it even really is a defense), their tactics aren't as extreme. Their ideology is just as bad as Islam's, but they don't act out on their beliefs the way radical Muslims do. Of course, there are exceptions (abortion clinic bombers, etc).

On the other hand, I am against profiling people of Arab descent. A person from the Middle East isn't automatically a Muslim and vice versa. This kind of profiling is not OK as far as I'm concerned. It's like saying you hate Roman Catholics and being prejudiced against Italians because you stereotype them all as being Catholic.

I felt like ranting, but now I don't, so uhhhhh...there you go.
I'll just jump on in with my two bits;
Being an ex Christian may give me a little insight to this question.(I speak only for myself on this thread [really on most of my replies])
While being a Christian I felt that "God", my "God" was the only god out there and if you didn't believe then you, you poor soul, were going to burn in hell. If you didn't support my god then you must be supporting the Devil. Any other religion wasn't necessarily supporting the devil but was misguided and they too would probably burn in hell.
If left wing folks didnít support my god but rallied (any form of support) for Allah then guess what? They were not only following Allah but joined up with a religion that wantsí to exterminate Christians.

Now, I donít believe this and I can see that I was not thinking clearly. In my honest opinion, left wingers/liberals (not extreme) seem to fight for the underdog no matter who they are. These same leftie folks do have their intensions in the right place but through political distortion it could seem, to a right wing/conservative, as if they (left/liberal) are against the Christian god.

I wish we could toss out the political attributes and focus on the intensions, I do feel we would find they are quite similar.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:26 AM
 
32,468 posts, read 26,339,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
You just proved my point. If what is considered right and wrong changes with time, then the morals espoused by "god" aren't absolute.

I was raised in a Christian home and am very familiar with the Bible. Keep in mind that you don't know a person on a forum personally before you try to insult their knowledge of a topic or education. It makes your ignorance a lot clearer.
you are only looking at one small part and trying to argue the whole, and that is the flaw in your logic. for instance, god gave people a way out in the old testament by telling them exactly how to do a burnt offering to god. however when the new testament times rolled around, things changed, and god gave his son the who so ever believes and is baptized shall be saved. in other words there was no longer a need for a burnt offering to god, as he provided it in is son jesus.

jesus also said love they neighbor as you love yourself. just because times and technologies change, that does NOT negate the morals espoused in the bible. adultery is still wrong these days, that has not changed, what has changed is the punishment for the crime.

one more thing, jesus said render unto ceasar that which belongs to ceasar, and render unto god that which belongs to god. jesus also said follow the laws of man unless they go against the laws of god.
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Old 08-01-2010, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Hades
2,126 posts, read 2,113,391 times
Reputation: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Time to open that ice skating rink in Hades, because I agree emphatically with this.

So does the Old Testament. And our pagan forefathers undoubtedly had rules about it as well. It's deep, dark magic.

Very true. Some take to Europe like a fish to water, some maintain at least a veneer of old traditions (for instance, in my experience, some drink like fish, but feel bad about it as an act of contrition), some recoil from the unknown and escape into a structure that provides certainty, a social network and dignity.

Well, yes and no. I read recent Danish study - young Muslim women are over-represented in the universities. They don't party, so they study. And they're going for the heavy degrees, too. It's damn hard to to insist on subservience from doctors or lawyers.

[]The whole cartoon debacle also shows the direness of the situation. A danish cartoonist receiving death threats for mocking Allah? Scandinavians mock ALL things religious. It's probably the most atheist region on Earth.
Interestingly, it was mostly overseas and mostly deliberately agitated - a couple of Danish Imams decided to go for a bit of fame and travel through the Middle East getting people riled up. Which worked. (Those guys were truly a-holes. Blood on their hands.)

The Danish Muslims mostly walked in demonstrations and wrote very, very angry letters to the editor. Which is of course how it should be.

I had a couple of Iranian colleagues back in Germany, whose girlfriends/wives did very much not cover up. Nor did I notice them being particularly subservient.[/quote]


I'll go ice skating in that rink in Hades. In fact, I can see it now. It's a marvel of underground space technology. Cold, efficient, spacious and beautiful.

Interesting point on Muslim women in universities that I had not thought of. They take their studies seriously, and soberly, and attain credentials that land them in some heavy positions...positions which, in an increasingly diverse Scandinavian society, need such representation at the professional level. Good movements.
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Old 08-01-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Hades
2,126 posts, read 2,113,391 times
Reputation: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
why do some liberals on CD generalize about republicans/conservatives?

Isn't the DNC the party of tolerance?

I better stop now, any shots at the left wing would surely mean I'm a racist.
No, the whole liberal vs conservative thing is just so exhausting at this point. Both sides show intolerance. There are liberals on CD who generalize about reps/cons and there are reps/cons on CD who generalize about libs. It's all still at an extremely juvenile level and distracting from the issues at hand usually.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
1,206 posts, read 1,198,818 times
Reputation: 1377
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadScribe View Post
Will do.

I think one of the most important things we see happening in our era, concerning this issue, is the flood of Muslims into Europe and the current grappling of how to handle their customs. I'm all for banning the veil in Europe. Muslim men often get integrated (and "westernized" if they choose) far quicker then Muslim women because they do not have as many rules and barriers shackling them when they immigrate to a Western country. More Muslim men having kids with European women etc. The Muslim women remain sheltered (sometimes) even when they are in the new Western society. MAJOR issue.

The whole cartoon debacle also shows the direness of the situation. A danish cartoonist receiving death threats for mocking Allah? Scandinavians mock ALL things religious. It's probably the most atheist region on Earth.
I have read both of Ali's books. In her second one she talks at length about the West tolerating a lack of assimilation by Muslims. Female genital mutilation, domestic violence, honor killings, forced marriages - all occurring in the West and often tolerated or not brought to light as they should be in the name of multiculturalism. So immigrants maintain their culture's traditions/mores, even tho they are in conflict with the laws and world view of their new country. A recipe for trouble down the road.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Wichita,Kansas
2,731 posts, read 6,074,817 times
Reputation: 1338
Many left-leaning folks who bash Christians are quick to defend Islam.
Makes no sense to me seeing as how the more extreme parts of the religon...
Go against everything they believe in.
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