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That's great Obama. It's unfortunate though that even with this admission you still missed the bigger picture.
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Originally Posted by CNN.com
While citing some accomplishments, Obama said the true measure of success will be when the economy has rebounded fully and people are feeling better about it.
No. The true measure of success will be when the agendas of the American people and the government are more closely aligned, be that on the economy, the oil spill, illegal immigration, gay marriage, taxation, Guantanamo, healthcare, the war, or the financial industry. By "aligned" I don't mean agree. I mean that the government understands and listens to whatever way the people lean on each issue and takes appropriate action, regardless of whether it fits into your personal agendas.
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Originally Posted by CNN.com
Still, he listed the successes so far -- preventing an economic depression, saving the auto industry, passing health care reform -- and said: "That's not a bad track record."
You didn't prevent a depression. If anything you elongated the recession by throwing dollars at the financial industry and keeping with the "too big to fail" mantra instead of letting the ones who did things wrong fail in favor of those who wanted to do things right.
The auto industry wasn't in any danger. GM is not the auto industry. GM made pish poor decisions that led it to dig its own grave, and you saved it from the fate it deserved instead of allowing it to fail so that it could rebuild as a stronger corporation. But they are not the auto industry. They are an image of everything that was indulgent about the industry.
The health care reform was not wanted. You shoved it down the throats of the American people so fast that nobody had a chance to scrutinize it. Well...now the freaks are coming out. Taxes on tanning salons has caused a number of them to shut down. Requirements for businesses to file forms for vendor services exceeding $600 - ridiculous. Excise taxes. And yet, not a single clause that prevents illegals from getting the healthcare.
Sorry, Mr. President. As of right now, you only have one success; The Making Work Pay tax credit. And that's not much.
You didn't prevent a depression. If anything you elongated the recession by throwing dollars at the financial industry and keeping with the "too big to fail" mantra instead of letting the ones who did things wrong fail in favor of those who wanted to do things right.
Hmm, I don't know about that. Maybe you can expand a bit here.
North Carolina (Reuters) - A government program to bail out banks at the height of the financial crisis has so far turned a profit, according to a report by investment bank Keefe, Bruyette & Woods Inc.
The Capital Purchase Program, part of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, has generated an average return of 10 percent on the initial investment in 61 banks that have fully repaid the aid, said the report, issued on Wednesday.
"Its pretty clear that unless the economy just craters, the bank portion of TARP will be profitable," said Fred Cannon, bank analyst with Keefe, Bruyette and Woods."
Quote:
The auto industry wasn't in any danger. GM is not the auto industry. GM made pish poor decisions that led it to dig its own grave, and you saved it from the fate it deserved instead of allowing it to fail so that it could rebuild as a stronger corporation. But they are not the auto industry. They are an image of everything that was indulgent about the industry.
This doesn't make sense either. The American auto industry is actually turning itself around. I'm sure the mess with Toyota played a role, but this bailout seems to be working out as well. I'll admit that it's a surprise. Either way, the American auto industry has been in trouble for a long time. Of course, valid arguments can come from both sides, but...
"Ron Bloom, the former investment banker and union adviser whom Mr. Obama tapped last year to help engineer the companies’ makeovers, said that the bailout’s benefits went far beyond G.M. and Chrysler. He said the intervention stabilized the entire industry, including Ford, which did not take a bailout, and a vast network of parts suppliers that employ more people than Detroit’s Big Three combined.
“This is an incredibly interdependent industry, and if G.M. had failed a very large number of suppliers would have immediately failed,” Mr. Bloom said."
Quote:
The health care reform was not wanted. You shoved it down the throats of the American people so fast that nobody had a chance to scrutinize it. Well...now the freaks are coming out. Taxes on tanning salons has caused a number of them to shut down. Requirements for businesses to file forms for vendor services exceeding $600 - ridiculous. Excise taxes. And yet, not a single clause that prevents illegals from getting the healthcare.
I don't agree that nobody wanted it. I do think it's bad timing. It should not be on the table during a recession.
Hmm, I don't know about that. Maybe you can expand a bit here.
...
“This is an incredibly interdependent industry, and if G.M. had failed a very large number of suppliers would have immediately failed,” Mr. Bloom said."
With pleasure. You need to put on your travel hat though.
Nissan was never in severe trouble. Toyota also was not in that much trouble at the time thanks to the Prius, and Honda was doing fairly well. Ford and GM were the two big ones experiencing issues. What was common about those two? Greed and overindulgence. Where Toyota was paving the way for hybrid technology, and Nissan was increasing MPG on every car they released, GM and Ford were busy releasing the Hummers, Expeditions, Excursions and all of the other indulgent vehicles people asked for, and were all-too-happy to take consumer money releasing those vehicles. That's fine, it's their choice. When the economy crashed, people started to scale back. Nissan and Toyota and to a lesser degree Honda started looking mighty attractive to consumers. Gas prices skyrocketed, and suddenly the H2 didn't look so cool anymore for all but the elitist. Ford had made many mistakes with its vehicles which gave it a very bad reputation for reliability and didn't turn it around until the Fusion. GM I don't think ever really "got it" until the Volt which wasn't until recent. In addition, GM's unions were giving away absolutely insane benefits and compensation to the employees, even ones no longer employed. They were a cash drain and only sustained by overpriced, indulgent vehicles.
IN summary: Ford and GM made the wrong decisions. They attempted to cash in on people's indulgence and got bit. Their union contracts were not sustainable (GM). Both should have been allowed to go to bankruptcy completely, reorganize and start over with a smarter business strategy, akin to Toyota and Nissan, moreso Nissan, and Honda. I'm not a fan of giving money to GM to "save" it and then patting ourselves on the back because of the interest gained. I'm a fan of funneling that money towards other pressing issues - like our broken tax code.
As far as suppliers failing, let them. Others will pop up in their place ready to seize the opportunity to make profit. They might have even identified opportunities to improve things over the way they had been doing them.
My big thing is this. I don't believe in "Too Big To Fail". I believe in smart enterprise. I believe in upstarts who seize an opportunity. I believe in smart investment strategies that lend themselves to a stronger economy. One has to imagine that part of the reason we even got into this situation is the stagnation of the current old fat cat CEOs who refuse to work smarter and are not Americana. Guys who "get it" like the ones who started Google, the brainchildren of Apple and some of the smaller entertainment companies like IGN are the ones who stabilize and strengthen the economy. I want to see more bosses who think that way.
North Carolina (Reuters) - A government program to bail out banks at the height of the financial crisis has so far turned a profit, according to a report by investment bank Keefe, Bruyette & Woods Inc.
The Capital Purchase Program, part of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, has generated an average return of 10 percent on the initial investment in 61 banks that have fully repaid the aid, said the report, issued on Wednesday.
"Its pretty clear that unless the economy just craters, the bank portion of TARP will be profitable," said Fred Cannon, bank analyst with Keefe, Bruyette and Woods."
ahem is it profitable after inflation that is the question.
Wealth =/= dollars
after inflation what is it worth? BTW the reason the banks are making any money is because of ACCOUNTING FRAUD the gov is letting them get away with. They did not dump their toxic assets on the markets and if they did it would crash it. NOT mark to market accounting = fraud to keep prices up and fake it. Who cares they have unlimited money from the FED to loan to the gov to keep the fraud going while keeping real inflation up on necessities while luxuries can keep falling and calling inflation low.
Quote:
This doesn't make sense either. The American auto industry is actually turning itself around. I'm sure the mess with Toyota played a role, but this bailout seems to be working out as well. I'll admit that it's a surprise. Either way, the American auto industry has been in trouble for a long time. Of course, valid arguments can come from both sides, but...
"Ron Bloom, the former investment banker and union adviser whom Mr. Obama tapped last year to help engineer the companies’ makeovers, said that the bailout’s benefits went far beyond G.M. and Chrysler. He said the intervention stabilized the entire industry, including Ford, which did not take a bailout, and a vast network of parts suppliers that employ more people than Detroit’s Big Three combined.
“This is an incredibly interdependent industry, and if G.M. had failed a very large number of suppliers would have immediately failed,” Mr. Bloom said."
Ahem who cares about GM. They suck in my eyes now. Sorry their PR stunt made many Americans distasteful for them. Ford held it's ground and now turned itself around, We should applaud those that did not take bailouts and instead worked themselves through it. GM should have just died and been done with it's misery. These corps all need big pay cuts through all their staff including CEOs and managers. IF they lose money pay cut if they make money pay raise. Simple. Btw Unions in auto-industry helped kill it along with the CEOs. Let shareholders vote on pay raises maybe. They do own the corp after all.
Quote:
I don't agree that nobody wanted it. I do think it's bad timing. It should not be on the table during a recession.
Sorry 2000 page bill who knows who wants what. We all know everyone wants a free hand out and not want to pay of course. Yep illegals want it badly. Sigh. If we can only expect them to read bills and let people know what's in it.
Sorry NO ONE WANTS a 2000 page book thrown at them. Same with Financial reform they pulled the same stunt again. BTW idiots that voted Brown in Mass in actually sided with Demo on the fin ref bill
(just how much corruption is there). That is why dont just vote demo/rep you need to research them.
All this does is add much much much more red tape, Stupid. type: regulation that has so much loop holes because it's 2000 pages that they wont do crap. The 2000 pages are for the loop holes. Want to bet?
That's why i said just republicans are not the tea party people. Its independent thinkers that are for small gov. Similar but they also want the old matra of the republicans: LESS/NO WAR SPENDING.
Defense at home is ok but dont over do it. They also want NO welfare for illegal immigrants, after all they are not citizens. LIFE/Death fine deal with that then deportation and not force us to learn their language with they should be learning ours...
With pleasure. You need to put on your travel hat though.
Nissan was never in severe trouble. Toyota also was not in that much trouble at the time thanks to the Prius, and Honda was doing fairly well.
I was under the impression that they're speaking of auto manufacturers head quartered in the US.
Quote:
IN summary: Ford and GM made the wrong decisions. They attempted to cash in on people's indulgence and got bit. Their union contracts were not sustainable (GM). Both should have been allowed to go to bankruptcy completely, reorganize and start over with a smarter business strategy, akin to Toyota and Nissan, moreso Nissan, and Honda. I'm not a fan of giving money to GM to "save" it and then patting ourselves on the back because of the interest gained. I'm a fan of funneling that money towards other pressing issues - like our broken tax code.
Very informative post. Clearly, I don't know much about it, but isn't the ideal to have American manufacturers head-quartered here, or does it not matter?
Quote:
As far as suppliers failing, let them. Others will pop up in their place ready to seize the opportunity to make profit. They might have even identified opportunities to improve things over the way they had been doing them.
Well, I can see your point, but OTOH it's reasonable to figure it would have made things worse. We were already in the sh*tter. Diving further down wouldn't have been a good thing.
Quote:
My big thing is this. I don't believe in "Too Big To Fail". I believe in smart enterprise. I believe in upstarts who seize an opportunity. I believe in smart investment strategies that lend themselves to a stronger economy. One has to imagine that part of the reason we even got into this situation is the stagnation of the current old fat cat CEOs who refuse to work smarter and are not Americana. Guys who "get it" like the ones who started Google, the brainchildren of Apple and some of the smaller entertainment companies like IGN are the ones who stabilize and strengthen the economy. I want to see more bosses who think that way.
Is there anything on the table to implement reform to prevent this from happening again? I realize the gov. keeping its hand out of the game is a no-brainer solution.
ahem is it profitable after inflation that is the question.
Wealth =/= dollars
after inflation what is it worth? BTW the reason the banks are making any money is because of ACCOUNTING FRAUD the gov is letting them get away with. They did not dump their toxic assets on the markets and if they did it would crash it. NOT mark to market accounting = fraud to keep prices up and fake it. Who cares they have unlimited money from the FED to loan to the gov to keep the fraud going while keeping real inflation up on necessities while luxuries can keep falling and calling inflation low.
Yea, good point. Like everyone else, I believe inflation is probably coming, but it's hard to say at this point since we've been experiencing deflation.
Quote:
Ahem who cares about GM. They suck in my eyes now. Sorry their PR stunt made many Americans distasteful for them. Ford held it's ground and now turned itself around, We should applaud those that did not take bailouts and instead worked themselves through it. GM should have just died and been done with it's misery. These corps all need big pay cuts through all their staff including CEOs and managers. IF they lose money pay cut if they make money pay raise. Simple. Btw Unions in auto-industry helped kill it along with the CEOs. Let shareholders vote on pay raises maybe. They do own the corp after all.
I commented on my thoughts on this in a previous post. I still see it as a smart move in this economy. I see no reason to assume that the complete failing of both wouldn't have added to the mess.
Quote:
Sorry 2000 page bill who knows who wants what. We all know everyone wants a free hand out and not want to pay of course. Yep illegals want it badly. Sigh. If we can only expect them to read bills and let people know what's in it.
Sorry NO ONE WANTS a 2000 page book thrown at them. Same with Financial reform they pulled the same stunt again. BTW idiots that voted Brown in Mass in actually sided with Demo on the fin ref bill
(just how much corruption is there). That is why dont just vote demo/rep you need to research them.
All this does is add much much much more red tape, Stupid. type: regulation that has so much loop holes because it's 2000 pages that they wont do crap. The 2000 pages are for the loop holes. Want to bet?
That's why i said just republicans are not the tea party people. Its independent thinkers that are for small gov. Similar but they also want the old matra of the republicans: LESS/NO WAR SPENDING.
Defense at home is ok but dont over do it. They also want NO welfare for illegal immigrants, after all they are not citizens. LIFE/Death fine deal with that then deportation and not force us to learn their language with they should be learning ours...
I can understand both sides of the argument here. The reality is that there is always going to be a segment of the population that cannot care for themselves- be it due to laziness, hardship, whatever. Humans are compassionate and I don't think it's in our nature, over all, to just throw people aside. OTOH, I think we need to be smart about it. I've read a bit of the bill and I don't see how it's going to work out if the economy isn't turned around. If anything, it seems like it will stall a rebound.
This thread is a ridiculous rant for Obama-haters. Reasonable people should keep this in mind.
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But isn't an 'INCOMPLETE' another term for FAILURE !
