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Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy
I avoided jail time by being so old today. I knocked more than one kid on his butt when they needed it and in every case the parents came to me telling me to get tougher if I thought it was necessary. In other words, they thanked me for my tricks. Parents of today would head for the lawyer's office even before they went to the police.
Parents of the 1960s through the 1980s were happy to get help in reprimanding their kids but that has all gone by the wayside. I used to be able to paddle kids and get by with it. Today if a teacher even so much as pats a kid on the shoulder he can be sued for such harsh treatment. When the progressives took away the rights of teachers they doomed our kids to less than a chance for an education.
One old boy came to me saying that maybe more than now and then would be about the right number of times for his kid to get knocked down. He admitted that he wasn't big enough to do those things to his kid and thanked me profusely. I guess that old Nebraska farmer just wasn't very smart.
You have marked my age group. I'm not to old that I don't remember.
First grad had to go to the principles office for spanking. I wanted to visit in the classroom; not pay attention. First she tried to separate, girl boy, seating arrangements. I wasn't intimidated by a boy, I'll turn around in my seat and talk to him. (I saw him again a few years ago, small world we live in)
So off to get a paddling I went. Then 4th grade teacher conference with my mother, 'she's a day dreamer', well of course and I still am more incline to take off into a world of creativity rather than face---all this.
The important thing is they talked together about me. One didn't rule that the other had to follow suit, they both ruled together for the best interest of the child, that be me. Even though I thought they were both ignorant, doesn't matter what I think, what matters is I follow directions as I am not the one in control and am to young to make certain decisions as to my well being.
Job description now says, 'must be able to follow directions under direct supervision'. Are we prepared for the work force?
However, over the years both parent and teacher went to far with corporal punishment. Punishment has be taken by some to a whole other level.
I remember her, in 6th grade and I don't even recall her name. She came to school, bruised up one leg and down the other and everyone looked the other way. Before the end of the year she was gone and I do not know what became of her.
Now we must have the tolerance rule and that rule is being abused by everyone who knows a lawyer. Are we having fun yet...a creative mind is a terrible thing to waste and no, I have not wasted mine. I'll check back in when people stop getting stupid.
Three kids that I have had that have gone through today's education system and all three kids wished for me to home school them, because the kids they attended class with, were abusive to every one they could be. The teachers looked the other way.
Quality vs quantity, what is it that we really want and how do we get it? People are not going to change back so we must weed through the quantity to find the quality that we are looking for and that is tough to do, but not impossible. Motivation in the right way will see us through, question is are we tough enough to stay on target of the end game.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1
Wow, I guess I just have a good kid......
A little over a year ago she came home from school VERY upset.
She had not done well on a test. I told her not to worry, we have all failed tests.
She looked up at me and said, "failed....no...I got a bad A.
Yep, all that over an A-.
My children complained that it was tough to study with the spit wads being hurled at them and the joints were being passed around in the classroom. They were in college prep classes, they weren't challenged children accept maybe in the art of ignore.
My oldest boy, I was dropping him off at school he said, "mom, don't want to go". I said, 'well kiddo, it's the law'. He said, "you don't understand. They are passing joints in the classroom and the teachers look the other way."
I replied, "well they are certainly braver than they were in my day". We, use to wait until we got to the parking lot".
Yes, we....I remember and it is tough when we try to socially fit into the groups...the odd man out usually finds the group of acceptance, even if it isn't the best fit for the child.
It was rough teaching them 'respect for their elders' when the elders seemed to not care. I had to take motivation to a whole other meaning and explain to them, they may not like it, they may think it dumb, but that respect will get them farther than not.
It did as the teachers enjoyed my children and expressed their gratitude towards me as they didn't need more problem children than they already had.
However in the, joy of learning, arena and keeping them focused on the good to come of that, was much tougher to accomplish. One out of three is self motivated to achieve and reap the rewards of those achievements.
You ask a question and proceed to provide your own lengthy answer. You don't need me.
Actually, I asked a question and provided a lengthy opinion or do you agree with what I stated?
I thought it was on topic and logical. Was not attempting to be argumental just looking for your feedback as a retired educator.
So not to require backward clicking:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia
Ray, providing you are keeping up on it, which you probably are I have a question.
You taught for 37 years, would you say that the current education curriculum today is better in quality or worse than what previous generations were taught in government / public schools.
It seems today that the 3R's are replaced with the 3F's. Remember Conjunction Junction and Mathmatics where today it's seems to be Heather has Two Mommies and Super Teen Enviroforce.
It seems kids today cannot make change, they have no teachings in history, nor do they have any consumer mathmatics skills. We have went from Honor Roll to what is the new thing?
Today we have youth from India, China, Japan, and Germany bypassing our American youth. Though Government wants to expand hours and tenure does it want to teach or allow our teachers to teach? Our government be it Obama or our previous so called leaders touting education, the only beneficiaries seem to be the National Education Association and government beaucrats. America's children continue to lose ground and our teachers continue to work two jobs to make ends meet and hoping not to receive furlough.
I remember when as a child our local public /government schools were under the full control of the local not the federal, I am dating myself.
Since Federal just about taking full control, as with everything else progress becomes regress, success becomes failure, and beaucrats and unions win as our nation and general population loses.
You speak of poverty. In America with a free representative republic (so far anyway) when we find what we call poverty it is usually connected to a government unbilical cord unlike poverty in the third world which is due to oppressive total government. Funny, but not so on how the two are related.
I see so many folks with emotion over logic views stating idiocy like "home school them, then they can become serial killers" etc., but the truth be told, in todays NEA controlled environment home school and private school children are far outscoring public/government school children.
The sad part is, when you have folks who look to government for control and guidance only find poverty as the end result.
My children complained that it was tough to study with the spit wads being hurled at them and the joints were being passed around in the classroom. They were in college prep classes, they weren't challenged children accept maybe in the art of ignore.
My oldest boy, I was dropping him off at school he said, "mom, don't want to go". I said, 'well kiddo, it's the law'. He said, "you don't understand. They are passing joints in the classroom and the teachers look the other way."
I replied, "well they are certainly braver than they were in my day". We, use to wait until we got to the parking lot".
Yes, we....I remember and it is tough when we try to socially fit into the groups...the odd man out usually finds the group of acceptance, even if it isn't the best fit for the child.
It was rough teaching them 'respect for their elders' when the elders seemed to not care. I had to take motivation to a whole other meaning and explain to them, they may not like it, they may think it dumb, but that respect will get them farther than not.
It did as the teachers enjoyed my children and expressed their gratitude towards me as they didn't need more problem children than they already had.
However in the, joy of learning, arena and keeping them focused on the good to come of that, was much tougher to accomplish. One out of three is self motivated to achieve and reap the rewards of those achievements.
Actually, I asked a question and provided a lengthy opinion or do you agree with what I stated?
I thought it was on topic and logical. Was not attempting to be argumental just looking for your feedback as a retired educator.
So not to require backward clicking:
Originally Posted by Georgia Ray, providing you are keeping up on it, which you probably are I have a question. I've been retired for 7 years and, yes, I do keep up. Multiple family members are teachers, including my two children.
You taught for 37 years, would you say that the current education curriculum today is better in quality or worse than what previous generations were taught in government / public schools.
Today's curriculum is as applicable to today's students as the curriculum of the past was to previous generations. It is not possible to generalize on the quality of curriculum as it varies from district to district, school to school, and teacher to teacher.
It seems today that the 3R's are replaced with the 3F's. Remember Conjunction Junction and Mathmatics where today it's seems to be Heather has Two Mommies and Super Teen Enviroforce.
Why does it seem that way to you? Have you spent a lot of time observing in a variety of today's public schools?
It seems kids today cannot make change, they have no teachings in history, nor do they have any consumer mathmatics skills. We have went from Honor Roll to what is the new thing?
Again, do you spend a lot of time interacting with a large sampling of today's students? How did you arrive at the above conclusions?
Today we have youth from India, China, Japan, and Germany bypassing our American youth. Though Government wants to expand hours and tenure does it want to teach or allow our teachers to teach? Our government be it Obama or our previous so called leaders touting education, the only beneficiaries seem to be the National Education Association and government beaucrats. America's children continue to lose ground and our teachers continue to work two jobs to make ends meet and hoping not to receive furlough.
The above is not an opinion. It is an assertion, for which you really need to provide supporting evidence.
I remember when as a child our local public /government schools were under the full control of the local not the federal, I am dating myself. Since Federal just about taking full control, as with everything else progress becomes regress, success becomes failure, and beaucrats and unions win as our nation and general population loses.
Again, assertions.
You speak of poverty. In America with a free representative republic (so far anyway) when we find what we call poverty it is usually connected to a government unbilical cord unlike poverty in the third world which is due to oppressive total government. Funny, but not so on how the two are related.
Assertion
I see so many folks with emotion over logic views stating idiocy like "home school them, then they can become serial killers" etc., but the truth be told, in todays NEA controlled environment home school and private school children are far outscoring public/government school children.
Re the underlined text - you really have been listening to too much right wing nonsense. As I have already stated, the NEA is pretty much a non-entity in FL. I'm sure there are other states where this is also the case.
The sad part is, when you have folks who look to government for control and guidance only find poverty as the end result.
Poor parents aren't always bad parents, but a lot of poor kids where im from have single parents who aren't much older then them. Schools in poor neighborhoods do have much worse parents in general though. No im not a hs student anymore but last year wasn't very long ago. I think the system has failed and is continuing to.
It is clear that you feel the system has failed you. How much effort did you put into your school years?
FWIW, can point to multitudes of former students for whom the system worked quite well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blewcas
Also kids have no reason to respect there teachers unless there given a reason. Between the teacher or parent som1 needs to beat the kids ass. All bad teenage boys understand is pain lol.
I can see that you didn't pay much attention to your English teachers...
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1
What a sad mess public education is in.
Yes. I began looking into home schooling. There are so many social recreation centers through out a city. There are swim meets, tennis, computer related programs, etc., that I thought if I could teach them at home (more affordable than private) then find an interest of theirs and meet that with an activity group. However, single mom, it just wasn't feasible.
My oldest son will not go to college, not even vocational. He wants no part of an extended education in an organized fashion and learns on his own. He is fantastic with computers. He has within the last few years decided to give Linux a try and now he is over my head in conversations.
I brought the computer into the home. I learned the basics, passed on that knowledge to them, it took off and left me far behind. Which is good, but...will he get a job in it? So far outlook slim. He mechanics with his father. This last month he took a car out of a junk yard, put it together and sold it. He got a high off that and wants to do another. Success in how we find it, we find it in ourselves.
The teachers in public schools have their hands tied. Also, many times than not, the teacher is afraid to do anything for fear they will be met by harm. I understand that...I understand the tolerance rules and why they came into play. Then we have the bureaucracy placed on the school whose authority they must answer to...
I talked with my kids on a daily basis and I used the basic ground work that was given to me by my parents. I turned the clock back. I didn't know any other way to teach a child in the way they should go.
What do the other countries have that we do not have in our culture that gives to them their educational successes? Many other cultures have stronger family ties than we do, so that could be a part of the missing link.
Your child with the A-, you are the first teacher. You are the one that will be looked upon for guidance, first....in their life, you are the most important. And you always will be.
Our foundation for a successful society will always begin, in the home.
Re the underlined text - you really have been listening to too much right wing nonsense. As I have already stated, the NEA is pretty much a non-entity in FL. I'm sure there are other states where this is also the case.
Quote:
Homeschooling Statistics
According to this report, homeschoolers outscore their peers on standardized tests.
Statistics Homeschooling Foes Don't Want You to Know (http://ezinearticles.com/?Statistics-Homeschooling-Foes-Dont-Want-You-to-Know&id=3818912 - broken link)
I'm not going to copy paste, but it's there. So who does better? Homeschooling is a growing trend because of the affordability vs private, I'm sure.
I graduated from a private school with a B average, because anything lower than that was unacceptable. I was put into that private school, because I buckled under the social pressure of my day...peer pressure is the toughest social structure to break away from...; it doesn't matter whether a person is rich poor fat or skinny...peer pressure will find them and teach them how to behave. Academics falls behind acceptance into a social group. Always has, always will.
The only difference between an adult and a child, is now you're the adult.
PS:
ray1945, from your link, they adjusted the numbers. What is that?
Quote:
Mathematics
In the first set of analyses, all private schools were again compared to all public schools. The average private school mean mathematics score was 7.8 points higher than the average public school mean mathematics score,
corresponding to an effect size of .29. After adjusting for selected student characteristics, the difference in means was -4.5 and significantly different from zero. (Note that a negative difference implies that the average
school mean was higher for public schools.) In the second set, Catholic schools and Lutheran schools were each compared to all public schools. The results, both with and without adjustments, were similar to the corresponding
results for all private schools.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 08-02-2010 at 11:28 PM..
Reason: ps
You're pissed because they want to extend school hours?
Really? Our kids need more education, have you seen our grades compared to other countries? I've long been a proponent of a year round school schedule.
You realize that the "summer vacation" was originally put in place so your kids could help you farm, right? I've seen studies that show that students lose up to 30% of the knowledge they learned the year before on their summer breaks, which causes teachers to spend the first 6 weeks of school playing catch up. Some kids never do catch up.
And the idea that they are making teachers read some communist manifesto is asinine, and has no basis in reality.
Your opinion piece is biased, and ignores the reality we find ourselves in educationally.
You know it is not just the teachers' responsibility to educate the kids it is also the parents. If you are to lazy to work with your child during the summer months to help the retain the knowledge they have then I do not think that spending more time in school will do anything to help them. The parents need to be more involved and let the teachers get the basic information introduced and the parents can build on that base.
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I'm not to old that I don't remember.
etc., but the truth be told, in todays NEA controlled environment home school and private school children are far outscoring public/government school children.
