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Old 08-03-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,835,611 times
Reputation: 12162

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Quote:
Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
I'm curious how you interpret the interstate commerce clause to be applicable to intrastate mining?
First of all, it is a national resource, not a state resource. Secondly, the resource is managed across all states. Do you think WV mines for its own use and that is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Resources such as Coal, oil, timber, other minerals including gold, are State resources!!!
No matter how hard you try, how loudly you speak, it is national resource.

Quote:
The commerce clause does not regulated until it crosses state lines. How it got harvested into the State, is no business of the Federal government.
True on commerce clause, but harvest in any state is dependent on interstate commerce. Unfortunately for you, natural resources are national resources.

Quote:
The commerce clause is fixing to be tested, as it has be redefined so many times. It has become the catch all to a government take over of the economy, private business and property.
You wish. I'm sure many would like to take out completely. But then, the same people would also make for prime candidate for secession of their state from the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
Hmmm. Children live throughout the nation. Wages are paid throughout the nation. Mining is done in only parts of the nation.
In many parts of the nation, yes. Just like I expect the government to regulate oil industry, the environment and everything else that involves natural resources.

Quote:
Remind me again what is confusing about mining not being a national issue like child labor and minimum wage?
It isn't. You're getting confused though. We were simply talking about regulation of businesses.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,196 posts, read 33,604,999 times
Reputation: 14157
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
First of all, it is a national resource, not a state resource. Secondly, the resource is managed across all states. Do you think WV mines for its own use and that is it?


Mineral rights, are the land owners.
Does the Government own the land?
What State is that land in


Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
No matter how hard you try, how loudly you speak, it is national resource.

Who made it a national resource and not the States resource?
There ya go!
Time to change that back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
True on commerce clause, but harvest in any state is dependent on interstate commerce. Unfortunately for you, natural resources are national resources.

That's a far reach. Kinda like doing nothing, crosses the commerce clause. ahla the heathcare mandate.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:22 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 3,418,280 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
First of all, it is a national resource, not a state resource. Secondly, the resource is managed across all states. Do you think WV mines for its own use and that is it?
I appreciate the reply but staunchly disagree.

Admittedly all WV coal does not remain in WV. It's sold and transported elsewhere. Until such time as that happens the interstate commerce clause does not apply.

Revenues for the profits from sale and distribution are taxed on local, state, and federal levels but that does not make them a national resource. They are a privately held resource.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,009,027 times
Reputation: 8620
Quote:
Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
I appreciate the reply but staunchly disagree.

Admittedly all WV coal does not remain in WV. It's sold and transported elsewhere. Until such time as that happens the interstate commerce clause does not apply.

Revenues for the profits from sale and distribution are taxed on local, state, and federal levels but that does not make them a national resource. They are a privately held resource.
You may disagree with it, but its one of the reasons we established the form of government we have. Each state in control of its own individual resources isn't a country, its a pact of 50 separate countries.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,835,611 times
Reputation: 12162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Mineral rights, are the land owners.
Does the Government own the land? What State is that land in...
In that case, the state doesn't own the land either. However, the resources themselves are national. Energy, for example, falls on the lap of Department of Interior (founded 1849).

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
I appreciate the reply but staunchly disagree.

Admittedly all WV coal does not remain in WV. It's sold and transported elsewhere. Until such time as that happens the interstate commerce clause does not apply.

Revenues for the profits from sale and distribution are taxed on local, state, and federal levels but that does not make them a national resource. They are a privately held resource.
Privately held resource, but not without room for regulations. Just because one owns a piece of property doesn't meant he/she can do anything with it.

Natural resources are managed under the federal umbrella with states being participants (not governing bodies).
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:42 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 3,418,280 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
You may disagree with it, but its one of the reasons we established the form of government we have. Each state in control of its own individual resources isn't a country, its a pact of 50 separate countries.
I can't speak to the extraction of coal but in the local gold mining industry the amount of gold mined and processed is determined by the mines not the state or federal government. They lessen their production when prices drop and increase it when they come back up. It's a private enterprise.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,009,027 times
Reputation: 8620
Quote:
Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
I can't speak to the extraction of coal but in the local gold mining industry the amount of gold mined and processed is determined by the mines not the state or federal government. They lessen their production when prices drop and increase it when they come back up. It's a private enterprise.
No, they have to file for mining permits, that way the government can regulate how many mines there are.

Not enough, more permits, to much, less permits.

Its kind of like hunting. You have a quota you can hunt, and thats it. It secures there'll be game there tomorrow.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:45 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 3,418,280 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
No, they have to file for mining permits, that way the government can regulate how many mines there are.

Not enough, more permits, to much, less permits.

Its kind of like hunting. You have a quota you can hunt, and thats it. It secures there'll be game there tomorrow.
The permits regulate the areas that can be mined. They do nothing to regulate the amount of gold produced.

I will agree that refusal to issue new permits can limit future production however a number of existing mines are sitting on at least 25yrs worth of ore deposits. That doesn't give government a lot of leverage in controlling current prices.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,009,027 times
Reputation: 8620
Quote:
Originally Posted by outbacknv View Post
The permits regulate the areas that can be mined. They do nothing to regulate the amount of gold produced.

I will agree that refusal to issue new permits can limit future production however a number of existing mines are sitting on at least 25yrs worth of ore deposits. That doesn't give government a lot of leverage in controlling current prices.
Thats right, but if there was no permit process, anyone could mine wherever they wanted, and open as many mines as they wanted, and then mine all of the gold to quickly.

And yes it does, because then you have to get new construction permits, and all of that other stuff to go along with it.

They regulate the size of the gold mines, just like they regulate the size of farms.
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:09 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 3,418,280 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Thats right, but if there was no permit process, anyone could mine wherever they wanted, and open as many mines as they wanted, and then mine all of the gold to quickly.

And yes it does, because then you have to get new construction permits, and all of that other stuff to go along with it.

They regulate the size of the gold mines, just like they regulate the size of farms.
The bulk of new construction permitting on the mine sites is mainly concerned with environmental impact. There are scores of studies done prior to issuing the permits.

I suppose it could be argued that the underlying motive for the permitting process had to do with controlling the volume of gold extracted but I've not seen that to be the case in the decade or so I've been involved with mining.

It's doubtful either of us can convince the other to adopt their position. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
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